Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A suicide crisis among veterinarians

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 463 posts

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#41

Post by jihiggins »

londons_explore wrote: post #13
the_gipsy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you met a bunch of junkies that are so determined that they picked their career around drug-access.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I have met 4 vets now, all in different walks of life (yoga class, my rock climbing buddies, an ex-colleague who did a career change, and a cousin), and all of them have at least experimented with animal drugs... Hard to believe it isn't widespread in the industry.

maybe it's because people who have access to ketamine tend to be more likely to try ketamine? it's not that surprising that some people will take advantage of access to "free" party drugs.

also, ketamine has been shown to help with depression. could be that people are self-medicating.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#42

Post by lotsofpulp »

datameta wrote: post #38
lotsofpulp wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you not see how that would be viewed as insanely predatory? I assume you must be an expert in the cost structure of operating a veterinary practice in that location, at that time, in order to determine a predatory and non predatory price. If you are not, I am not sure how you can make any claim about the prices. >For profit companies should not be involved in human or animal medicine. What kind of quality of li…

I wholeheartedly disagree. After seeing the prices of basics like saline in hospitals, I'm not surprised to learn of inflated prices obfuscated from the general public.

That one is obvious due to us knowing the hospitals sell to the government and insurers for much less.

As far as I am aware, this does not apply to a veterinary business. The article also says it was $10k for emergency services at a vet hospital, including the aftercare.

What are the labor costs of having highly qualified people, presumably in low supply, on call to provide these services? What are the costs of supplies like medicine, and malpractice insurance (if that applies)?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#43

Post by hvs »

vector_spaces wrote: post #30
Dig1t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and then pressured the owner give the pup up when they couldn't afford that My wife is a vet and I hear about this often. From the vet's perspective, if the owner gives up the puppy then they don't have to put the puppy down. Putting down a puppy is heart-wrenching. You can't give out free medical care, she regularly gives as many discounts as she's allowed to give away, even some she's not supposed to, especially f…

Why is it like that though? Like what are the economics of performing the procedure that it's possible for it to be free if the owner gives it up? Does someone different ultimately foot the bill?

The new owner pays for it.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#44

Post by hvs »

ericbarrett wrote: post #31
Dig1t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and then pressured the owner give the pup up when they couldn't afford that My wife is a vet and I hear about this often. From the vet's perspective, if the owner gives up the puppy then they don't have to put the puppy down. Putting down a puppy is heart-wrenching. You can't give out free medical care, she regularly gives as many discounts as she's allowed to give away, even some she's not supposed to, especially f…

> You can't give out free medical care Is this asserting a legal or professional requirement? Or rather a "rule of business"?

It's a basic rule of economics. Veterinarians need to eat too.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#45

Post by tokai »

londons_explore wrote: post #13
the_gipsy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you met a bunch of junkies that are so determined that they picked their career around drug-access.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I have met 4 vets now, all in different walks of life (yoga class, my rock climbing buddies, an ex-colleague who did a career change, and a cousin), and all of them have at least experimented with animal drugs... Hard to believe it isn't widespread in the industry.

I'm guessing from your name that you are in the UK? That would explain why your experience doesn't map to other countries, as UK has a huge crisis of ketamine abuse.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#46

Post by ryandrake »

9991 wrote: post #33
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoping someone will pay for a procedure to save their pet's life while being braced for "I guess we should put them down..." I'm sorry, but vet costs are completely out of whack with reality these days. The truth of the matter is that most people cannot justify spending thousands of dollars on a pet, no matter how much they are loved, and that DOES NOT make them bad or unfit owners. The story quoted $10k to remove…

> no matter how much they are loved I don't buy it. If their kid needed a couple thousand dollars to live, a lot more people would be able to scrounge it up. If they can't do the same for their pet, maybe they actually do love their pet less ... and that's OK.

> If their kid needed a couple thousand dollars to live, a lot more people would be able to scrounge it up.

While I agree that many (most) people would make it work if it were for a child, I wouldn't use the insanity of the US's human healthcare bills to justify anything. It's also insane and a travesty that you can walk into your hospital and walk out with multi-thousand dollar charges you cannot pay. Both can be terrible and unjustifiable.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#47

Post by wholinator2 »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #15
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you're joking, but it wouldn't hurt to have a nationwide nonprofit pet insurance offering.

[flagged]

I'm sorry you have not yet or are not able to experience the unconditional love of a loyal and caring non human companion. Someone who is always excited to see you. Say, some day your wife or husband dies and leaves you in an empty house your children have long moved out of. You wake up every day thinking of everything you've lost and begin to recluse, especially after your retirement. The house is empty, the people are dead. You could understand that that would be a difficult and painful position to be in, right? Imagine that every time you wake up there is a little dog who is excited to see you. Every time you come home they are extremely happy and joyous at your return. Every time you sit with you dinner, they sit with you. Every time you cry they are there. Every difficult emotion is made sweeter and easier by the friend that loves you unconditionally and purely.

You think that person is a low life? You think that person is a caveman who should just die alone? You can't see a single reason that pure and unconditional love might be a good thing for some people? I hope you find some someday so you can understand they unadulterated joy and deep meaning of being alive on this planet, connected to other living things

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#48

Post by candybar »

pydry wrote: post #35
candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

This reminds me of bridge fences being successful at bringing down overall suicide: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2610560/

Yup, suicidal attempts are often impulsive, so any barrier (in this case literally) even if it's relatively easy to get around, reduces suicide rates. Here's another study, this time on firearms:

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner...

> The researchers found that people who owned handguns had rates of suicide that were nearly four times higher than people living in the same neighborhood who did not own handguns. The elevated risk was driven by higher rates of suicide by firearm. Handgun owners did not have higher rates of suicide by other methods or higher rates of death generally.

Suicide attempts by firearm are far more likely to complete than most other means, ergo, suicide death rates are higher among those that have firearms.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#49

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #42
datameta wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly disagree. After seeing the prices of basics like saline in hospitals, I'm not surprised to learn of inflated prices obfuscated from the general public.

That one is obvious due to us knowing the hospitals sell to the government and insurers for much less. As far as I am aware, this does not apply to a veterinary business. The article also says it was $10k for emergency services at a vet hospital, including the aftercare. What are the labor costs of having highly qualified people, presumably in low supply, on call to provide these services? What are the costs of suppl…

[deleted]

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#50

Post by unshavedyak »

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #39

My wife is a vet. One big issue is that most people don’t have pet insurance. But they do have medical insurance. As a consequence they are completely surprised by the out-of-pocket costs of medical procedures. Hip surgery (to pick something at random) is hip surgery, even if it’s for a dog. It still costs thousands of dollars. But a significant portion of the population expects to pay what they would pay for insuran…

Also, not sure how common it is, but an extended friend of mine was a vet tech. She quit due to the emotional toll of seeing animal abuse. Specifically sexual abuse. Apparently they had very limited tools to actually deal with the problem and instead had to give the dogs back to the abusers. That was not an emotional burden that she could continue with.

Not something I would have thought vets would have to deal with.

Post reply on HN