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Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

theguardian.com

171–180 of 250 posts

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. It is an emotional decision. Politics is all about emotionalism. Now everybody that like or work there will need to have buy a te$la or pole$tar.

What could possibly be more rational than designing cities for people, rather than cars, and pushing society away from petrol cars?

It's complicated for non-millionaries follow some rules. Not everybody can afford to have EV and some people depend of a car to carry tools to go to work.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#172
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

What if EVs (actually, any cars) were programmed for geofencing where acceleration is limited in pedestrian-focused areas based on municipal ordinances? Braking wouldn't be limited (so this is more directly reducing tire particles than brake dust) but I think a lot of city braking would naturally fall off a cliff without excessive acceleration.

You probably don't need to go crazy with stuff like that. Speed cameras seem like effective deterrents. When I drove around the UK, speed cameras were everywhere and people generally all did the speed limit or below.

The USA has a weird cultural obsession with being able to break certain laws. We need to rethink that. If we aren't enforcing laws, then we need to get rid of them, if we don't want to get rid of them, then we need to enforce them.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#173
post #14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Western life experience necessitate a car? Big cities don’t require a car at all.

> How does Western life experience necessitate a car? First of all, taking your kids by car to a much better school. Because we sure as hell cannot afford to own property close to those better schools.

A benefit of living in a reasonably dense city is there are like 10 schools within walking distance of me.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#174
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, seeing 7 year olds taking the subway with their parents, just to change two stations later like any other commuter, is always a fun and cool thing to see.

I take my 6 year old on the train all the time a few stops living in London and have since she was much smaller whats wrong with kids on trains (small children are keen on trains and buses btw).

Back the dqy, my parenrs had 1 hour commutes on foot through some woods to catch a bus for another hour to go to school, and back. Nobody cared, it was normal. Now it is normal for kids to take busses and trains themselves to go to school in cities. Times change.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The instant torque does blow through tires though. Maybe twice as fast as a typical ICE vehicle? The acceleration on a Tesla is like very, very premium ICE cars that few people have (>300HP). This could easily be tuned out, but that would cripple the thrill, i.e., bad for sales.

Why set your Tesla in Drag strip mode for commuting? It makes zero sense not to set it to Chill https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_us/GUID-43B58CA...

This is about driving in city centers, and I think a majority of that is not commuting but recreation.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could possibly be more rational than designing cities for people, rather than cars, and pushing society away from petrol cars?

It's complicated for non-millionaries follow some rules. Not everybody can afford to have EV and some people depend of a car to carry tools to go to work.

Yes, some people do. Way fewer than who actually use cars, though. It's crazy how much of city real estate that oftentimes get dedicated to cars being driven or parked.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if EVs (actually, any cars) were programmed for geofencing where acceleration is limited in pedestrian-focused areas based on municipal ordinances? Braking wouldn't be limited (so this is more directly reducing tire particles than brake dust) but I think a lot of city braking would naturally fall off a cliff without excessive acceleration.

You probably don't need to go crazy with stuff like that. Speed cameras seem like effective deterrents. When I drove around the UK, speed cameras were everywhere and people generally all did the speed limit or below. The USA has a weird cultural obsession with being able to break certain laws. We need to rethink that. If we aren't enforcing laws, then we need to get rid of them, if we don't want to get rid of them, t…

At city speeds, pollution from tire/brake wear is not a function of speed. It's a function of friction (acceleration/deceleration and vehicle mass), which has no posted limits or camera enforcement. The closest thing would be if a cop happens to hear you burn out and cite reckless driving, but I'm not even talking about that level of acceleration here.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#178
post #68

It's small, but it's a start. Next, remove as many cars as possible (some deliveries, taxis, and emergency vehicles make sense, as well as microcars for people who need them, of course). I'm appalled at the people here saying you need a car to lead a full life. A car-dependent life is an empty and sad one for many of us. I moved to the Netherlands with my family (two young daughters) and it has been _absolutely fanta…

Yet the overwhelming majority of people in the Netherlands still uses cars as their primary method of transport: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... of course if you moved there from the USA (which I assume you did?) the car situation there is not that much better than other European countries.

OK, but what I love about being here is that I, personally, haven't driven a car here in two months. And there has literally never been a time where we said to ourselves "we could do it but only if we had a car" because the rare occasion where that comes up is what car-share (or van-share, etc.) is for.

And that way I don't have to screw around with taking my own car to the shop for (oil changes, tyres, brake jobs, whatever), or having it inspected annually, or shopping around for insurance, etc.

My original comment was about removing cars from the city centre, which is great for people who are _not_ in cars because, of course, drivers kill a lot of people and biking to school with your 6 year old is utterly TERRIFYING when someone decides to cut in front of them in a giant truck. Cars make the world worse for everyone around them (including those who are in _other_ cars!) and it's kinda rude to use one in a city.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#179
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in some places around Europe, my quality of life is always increased by owning a motor vehicle. I do not use it daily, I do not commute with it, but there are trips which are far more practical with a personal motor vehicle than otherwise, like fetching people from an airport, taking a pet to a vet, driving further out for a hike, hauling groceries.

The solution to this is a car sharing programme. You pay your membership and get access to a fleet of cars and vans that you can pickup whenever you like. Tax, insurance, and petrol is all covered in the price (usually) and you can pick the right vehicle size for the trip you're making (no need to own a truck for the rare occasions you need to move large items). Obviously not a solution for every situation, but if yo…

I agree, car sharing is the way to go.

Re: Stockholm to ban petrol and diesel cars from centre from 2025

#180
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EVs are not the solution for that, brake and tire wear contribute to as much or more PM2.5 and 2-3 times more PM10 pollution than modern ICEs . Also while there will be some improvement it will be possibly partially outweighed by the fact the EVs generally weight more. Of course we can just ignore that which is not at all crazy... Edit: I'm certainly not using this as argument to not ban ICE vehicles in city centers.…

Yeah, the obvious solution is to make smaller lighter vehicles. We’ve built EVs in the image of ICE vehicles, so they’re big and heavy. There are a lot of people who are driving an EV with several hundred miles of range to work less than 20 miles away. That extra order of magnitude of battery capacity is a lot of extra weight. Imagine I’d you could instead rent a battery trailer for those occasional long trips? I thi…

This is the funny thing every time hackers discuss vehicles and traffic, always gives me a chuckle.

The smaller and lighter vehicles you all are trying to invent, already exist in the hundreds of millions! And have existed for almost as long as cars. They are cheap to buy, cheap to ride, release very little exhaust, doesn't need decaying batteries or rare-earth minerals to make, won't run over your kids and won't make traffic jams.

Also they can get you to where you're going faster than any EV or SUV.

They're called motorcycles.

Edit: Not to mention that electric motorcycles are great rides.

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