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Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

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Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#171

Post by jsjohnst »

jamestanderson wrote: post #119
KennyBlanken wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm sad to see this comment, scoffing at an independent creator just selling something cool online. I wonder why this reaction? Is it the imagined profit margin? Or just the choice of words in the listing? The listing says it's a 43" 4K Samsung display, which a quick look on Amazon shows goes for at least around $270. They also offer free shipping, so shipping is effectively included in the price. I don't know how mu…

> The price doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a turnkey complete package, since I don't have the skills or tools to make this myself.

I have the skills and tools to build this myself. Based on some napkin math, materials and labor comes out to around $500 give or take. If GP knew anything at all about developing and selling physical goods, they’d know that the price is about right. Etsy charges non-trivial fees, payment processors charge fees, marketing costs money, wear and tear on tools, taxes, insurance, warranty, customer support, fraud, etc etc etc

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#173

Post by xnx »

herpderperator wrote: post #163
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

Where does it show the minimum order is 3?

The article. "Some advanced Google-fu was used to find a supplier shipping to Europe. Minimum order quantity: 3 pieces."

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#174

Post by amelius »

evrimoztamur wrote: post #23
GaggiX wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it simply uses some API to generate the images.

How does the API generate the images then?

Maybe it can use multiple data centers, so there's always one running on renewable energy.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#175

Post by adql »

xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

Yeah I'd love to have big display/dashboard on a wall that isn't acting as extra light in the room but not at those prices.

Transflective LCD is other option bit also pretty hard/expensive to get a big screen...

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#176

Post by adql »

tough wrote: post #140
Qwertious wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As long as e-ink has been around, all I've ever heard were the patent issues. If you're saying it's actually manufacturing difficulties, can you provide any links or additional info? For the record, the "patents" think has no links to back it up either. But to answer your question: E-ink screens are less than $100 (depending on the size), that's already pretty cheap. They're only expensive when compared to LCDs . LC…

Sounds kinda like a problem looking for a solution, you could emagine e-ink taking off for a lot of thing sthat currently are not digital, but it would need to be also cheaper. If e-ink was x100 cheaper, we could use it in x1000 more use-cases

even just x10 cheaper would put it at double the price of LCD and that already has uses

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#177

Post by adql »

dantheman wrote: post #116
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

You say that, but patents traditionally hold back progress. If you look at the amount of horse power generated by steam engines - it spiked after the patents expired. There are probably many techniques and processes that would be tried and developed if it wasn't locked up by patents.

The time period is asinine; 20 years is forever in most industries

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#178

Post by adql »

nomel wrote: post #133
k1t wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that it only uses power when changing the image, so a small battery can run it for a long time - not that it works during a power outage. (and of course it is a lot easier to change than a printed photo)

For $2,200, you could run a 35W 43” $160 TV for 29 years , if your power is $0.3/kWh. In reality, much more, with a dim display at night. I understand being eco friendly, but that’s an absurd, entirely negligible, justification. I would claim the reflective display is the killer feature.

I'd love big reflective/tranflective display but I'd imagine because of rarity the prices would also be pretty high

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#179

Post by xd1936 »

rjvs wrote: post #135
renewiltord wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend has the Samsung Frame and I think you can only interface with it via the Samsung SmartThings app. It's quite closed. So you need an online thing for the TV and then you upload it into their app.

They make it superficially closed but it's pretty simple to get around it with a USB drive. Really all you have to do is ignore their subscription system and size your images to match the screen.

Or a Pi

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#180

Post by adql »

solardev wrote: post #111
bigmattystyles wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I don’t understand - why are the iPhone screens that can run in display mode run at 1hz a feature - what’s hard about driving a display typically driven at 120hz(?) at 1hz to save on power difficult? Or it’s not and the it’s a differentiating feature price.

Is the refresh really a big power draw vs the backlight or even the pixels themselves? I think the thing about e-ink is that it's a chemical producing/retaining the pigment, rather than a light source. So even when it's off, it retains its current colors. When a LED is off, it's just... nothing. But you still have a point. Even if a LED display has "only" a 2 or 3 day battery life, that's still pretty huge to mere ho…

> How do smart watches (like the Garmins with 1-week batteries) do it?

https://sharpdevices.com/memory-lcd/

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