Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

eliot.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 211 posts

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#111

Post by solardev »

bigmattystyles wrote: post #97
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

One thing I don’t understand - why are the iPhone screens that can run in display mode run at 1hz a feature - what’s hard about driving a display typically driven at 120hz(?) at 1hz to save on power difficult? Or it’s not and the it’s a differentiating feature price.

Is the refresh really a big power draw vs the backlight or even the pixels themselves? I think the thing about e-ink is that it's a chemical producing/retaining the pigment, rather than a light source. So even when it's off, it retains its current colors. When a LED is off, it's just... nothing.

But you still have a point. Even if a LED display has "only" a 2 or 3 day battery life, that's still pretty huge to mere hours.

How do smart watches (like the Garmins with 1-week batteries) do it?

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#112

Post by solardev »

BoorishBears wrote: post #86
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

I didn't downvote... but if you're being downvoted it's probably for ignoring the flywheel effect needed to scale novel tech in the market. Yes e-ink has high wastage, and yes demand is low, but having had a strong arming expensive patent holder didn't help the situation. The patents are actually expiring/expired but at some point the damage is already done. A great corollarly to e-ink is 3d printers: they were very…

> sunlight performance of non-eink displays has improved dramatically for example.

Can you talk more about this? My phones and laptops are still as bad as ever in direct sun. Did I miss some major development...?

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#113

Post by GuB-42 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

> So I'm saying the truth and getting down voted for it?

Don't worry about that. Posts that go against the general opinion always get downvoted at first. But if it is insightful and not demonstrably wrong, the upvotes will win.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#115

Post by dsp_person »

I remember seeing those Thinkpad X230 mods with an eink display and how a challenge was availability of the specific discontinued e-ink screen of the right size.

The mfg from the article has a 13.3" screen that would be fun to try a mod with: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/13.3''ePaperDisp...

and impressive 1600 x 1200 pixels

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#116

Post by dantheman »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

You say that, but patents traditionally hold back progress. If you look at the amount of horse power generated by steam engines - it spiked after the patents expired.

There are probably many techniques and processes that would be tried and developed if it wasn't locked up by patents.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#117

Post by solardev »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #38
xnx wrote: post #18

Well done. There would be so many more cool applications of e-ink if it wasn't $2,500 for a 42" display: https://shopkits.eink.com/en/product/detail/42''MonochromeeP... (minimum order 3) For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price.

>For comparison a 42" full-color 60fps TV with remote, speakers, wifi, etc. etc. is $140. Because it's a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture large LCD panels at scale than E-ink film. >It seems like the patent holder could be making a lot more money if they dropped the price. I don't know any company or shareholders that would say no to making more money so if this would actually be true then it would, but that's n…

I didn't vote either way, but this is news to me. As long as e-ink has been around, all I've ever heard were the patent issues. If you're saying it's actually manufacturing difficulties, can you provide any links or additional info? I believe you, but as someone not familiar with the field, I'd love to learn more both to counteract the patent narrative and just for my own curiosity. What is hard about e-ink at scale that other products don't share?

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#118

Post by BoorishBears »

solardev wrote: post #112
BoorishBears wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote... but if you're being downvoted it's probably for ignoring the flywheel effect needed to scale novel tech in the market. Yes e-ink has high wastage, and yes demand is low, but having had a strong arming expensive patent holder didn't help the situation. The patents are actually expiring/expired but at some point the damage is already done. A great corollarly to e-ink is 3d printers: they were very…

> sunlight performance of non-eink displays has improved dramatically for example. Can you talk more about this? My phones and laptops are still as bad as ever in direct sun. Did I miss some major development...?

You should upgrade your phones and laptops then: Apple just released a phone that does 2000 nits outdoors, and similarly the MBP can dip into its 1000 nit sustained HDR brightness rating for SDR content if in direct sunlight

In reality this is one of those slow burn deals where the improvements in anti-glare coatings, bonding between digitizer and displays, and brightness come slowly enough that it's easy to take for granted just how awful old displays used to be.

We've come a long way from the days of hazy plastic suspended millimeters above the actual display, which in turn had its own coating with a different refractive index leaving two layers of reflections to deal with

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#119

Post by jamestanderson »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #108
spullara wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just put any other kind of display flat and put glass over it to protect it? Edit: Someone has your dream display already :) https://www.etsy.com/listing/1463146123/43-4k-dnd-tv-table

[flagged]

I'm sad to see this comment, scoffing at an independent creator just selling something cool online. I wonder why this reaction? Is it the imagined profit margin? Or just the choice of words in the listing?

The listing says it's a 43" 4K Samsung display, which a quick look on Amazon shows goes for at least around $270. They also offer free shipping, so shipping is effectively included in the price. I don't know how much walnut or acrylic costs, or desktop CNC's.

The price doesn't seem unreasonable to me for a turnkey complete package, since I don't have the skills or tools to make this myself.

Re: Show HN: Building a 42-inch E-Ink frame for generative art

#120

Post by pama »

bigfudge wrote: post #54
huehehue wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have one of these, and only in a very specific environment is it convincing as not-a-TV (aside from the concerns of privacy and their proprietary app). Especially at night, I find the backlight makes it painfully obvious that it's just a TV and I'd much rather have something like e-ink which blends into the surroundings.

They look cool. Would be great to have an oled version without a backlight.

LED on oled stands for light emitting diodes, so they are a backlight.
Post reply on HN