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Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

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Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#41

Post by userinanother »

nostrademons wrote: post #31
legohead wrote: post #17

Toyota is so weird about their EV stance. What I particularly like about EVs is their low maintenance. You remove many components that are required with ICE. Regenerative braking makes your brake pads last a crazy amount longer. And now with this ammonia engine we are adding even more components to the vehicle? No thanks. Not to even mention the fuel distribution problem.

It destroys a lot of the competitive advantage Toyota has. Toyota is very, very good at making mechanical components to very high precision & quality levels. They've built up this core competency by careful attention to detail over decades. It's one of the main reasons why people buy Toyotas. With EVs, you remove many of the components that are required with ICE. Hence, it doesn't matter how good you are at making th…

It’s not the drive train I worry about on a new car. Those components are relatively easy to replace even if they can get expensive. The big problem I worry about is wiring and electronics. If the wiring is messed to the whole car might get totaled because finding someone to diagnose is near impossible

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#42

Post by userinanother »

The common wisdom on HN is that Toyota missed the boat on evs but I don’t think the boat will really set sail for another 7-10 years. Sure there are some evs out there and the market segment is growing but the charger network isn’t there. The charger standard will probably looks like it will finally converge in 2-3 years but good availability of ev chargers across the country will take at least 7 years. So Toyota has time to build and buy more mature tech without burning crazy new tech dollars.

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#44

Post by FiatLuxDave »

Arrath wrote: post #15
KiwiJohnno wrote: post #4

I'm not buying this at all. People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that this is not actually the problem it is made out to be), can you imagine the hazmat situation from a couple of cars carrying who knows how many KG of Anhydrous Ammonia crashing into each other? I mean, you might make the fuel tanks extremely robust (and heavy) but fuel lines etc will still break. Ammonia in the air at 300 PPM will…

Where did they even come up with the idea to use anhydrous ammonia as a fuel? Did some tired engineer suggest it as a jest at the tail end of an exhausting meeting and, to their horror, it was moved forward? This reminds me of rocket scientists trying out ever nastier and deadlier chemicals in the early days of space exploration.

It is not exactly a new idea. The first ammonia engine was built in in the early 1800s. There is a lot of history with this fuel, and a lot of history of it being replaced with something better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldsworthy_Gurney (see Other work)

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#45

Post by BenoitP »

legohead wrote: post #17

Toyota is so weird about their EV stance. What I particularly like about EVs is their low maintenance. You remove many components that are required with ICE. Regenerative braking makes your brake pads last a crazy amount longer. And now with this ammonia engine we are adding even more components to the vehicle? No thanks. Not to even mention the fuel distribution problem.

Toyota is the top company in global market share [1]. They are way more affected by global systemic issues than others. This means:

* They can't retreat into a niche

* Their bread and butter is efficiency, accumulated through tears and scale effects through decades of experience. That's a pretty deep moat. All that is partially reset with an industry-wide change

* Global copper, cobalt, lithium reserves (new deposits are found but with way lower grades, also it takes 15 years currently to set up a new mine) may be enough for the westernized world; but they are not for the whole world. This means effectively reducing the global market. In other words: they are against de-growth. But IMHO this will happen anyway with oil depletion looming in.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/316786/global-market-sha...

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#47

Post by richij »

369548684892826 wrote: post #8
KiwiJohnno wrote: post #4

I'm not buying this at all. People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that this is not actually the problem it is made out to be), can you imagine the hazmat situation from a couple of cars carrying who knows how many KG of Anhydrous Ammonia crashing into each other? I mean, you might make the fuel tanks extremely robust (and heavy) but fuel lines etc will still break. Ammonia in the air at 300 PPM will…

> People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that this is not actually the problem it is made out to be) Looking like quite a problem over in Luton https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073...

Local fire service is on record saying car zero was a Diesel Range Rover (not even a hybrid).

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#48

Post by [deleted] »

369548684892826 wrote: post #8
KiwiJohnno wrote: post #4

I'm not buying this at all. People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that this is not actually the problem it is made out to be), can you imagine the hazmat situation from a couple of cars carrying who knows how many KG of Anhydrous Ammonia crashing into each other? I mean, you might make the fuel tanks extremely robust (and heavy) but fuel lines etc will still break. Ammonia in the air at 300 PPM will…

> People freak out about EV battery fires now (never mind that this is not actually the problem it is made out to be) Looking like quite a problem over in Luton https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-67073...

[deleted]

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#49

Post by red-iron-pine »

jki275 wrote: post #37
isilofi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You like "low maintenance". Car companies don't. A significant part of their business is tied to replacement parts and their chains of brand dealerships and brand workshops. With EVs, that whole gravy train might end, or at least loose a lot.

Toyota absolutely wants your car to never break. That's their entire business philosophy, and why I drive Toyotas and have for decades.

But you pay for that privilege, e.g. the "Toyota Tax"

Re: Toyota CEO: "Our ammonia engine is the end of EV's" [video]

#50

Post by red-iron-pine »

holoduke wrote: post #16

I expect Toyota to come with a nuclear powered fuel cell car next year. Drive your car for 50 years without taking external charges. Easy to maintain and very safe.

AI and nuclear cars, plus looming resource wars and beefs with China.

moving closer and closer to the world of Fallout

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