Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 410 posts

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#141

Post by ChuckMcM »

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #50

This is wonderful. I wish they did the same about modifications done to increase the noise. I've got 2 people living nearby that both have straight-piped their car and I literally cover my ears when they pass by. My Watch literally tells me that a noise peak happened when they drive by.

If you seriously want to take action here, then do this;

1) Look up your city ordinances on sound, there should be copies of this is the reference section of your city's public library. Identify the ordinance and paragraph that the people nearby are violating. Record/video one or more violations on your phone.

2) Call the police, don't "complain about the noise", tell them you want to "swear out a complaint" for violating ordinance x, paragraph y. They are obligated to take your complaint and forward it to the District Attorney[1].

3) You will probably be called as a witness if the folks with the noisy cars choose a trial.

[1] When a police officer hears a complaint, they can "investigate", and then "cite" the offender. It is up to the officer's discretion. That citation is the sworn complaint from the officer of the offending behavior. When the police refuse to do their job, everyone has the right to "step in" to that role and swear out a complaint. The downside is that retaliating against an officer is 'scary' but retaliating against a neighbor isn't. This can result in a variety of negative externalities that may be criminal but hard to prove (car getting 'keyed', tires slashed, rocks thrown through windows, feces on your porch, Etc.)

Because taking on the job of enforcement when the cops let you down incurs significant personal risk, I usually suggest people make an appointment with their representative on the city's governing body, city manager, or district attorney and encourage them to actually do their job. Editorials in the local paper are good to, but projecting soft power as a voter in that way is less likely to blow back directly on you. I can also take longer and be less successful but sending emails to the DA with repeat infractions over and over can often convince them of the need for enforcement.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#142

Post by rasz »

Does author of this article https://www.thedrive.com/author/chris-rosales "focused on the technical side" "Previous work experience: GTChannel, track day photography, drifting coverage, and odd jobs. Once worked in an Italian restaurant" "AA-T in Communications" really think Hondata is being used to skirt emissions and is the aim of DOJ action? Reuters news piece is cited verbatim except for the important part:

>The Department of Justice said eBay illegally allowed the sale of at least 343,011 aftermarket "defeat" devices that help vehicles generate more power and get better fuel economy by evading emissions controls.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/national-enforcement-and-com...

"sales of defeat devices for certain diesel trucks after 2009 and before 2020 resulted in more than 570,000 tons of excess NOx and 5,000 tons of excess particulate matter (PM) over the lifetime of the trucks."

"defeat" devices are not aftermarket ECUs for your eighties Honda, they are DPF/EGR/SCR deletes for Diesel trucks.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/documents/ta...

Here is an example of asshole coal rolling supplier: https://www.rpmmotorsport.net/blogs/technical-help-center/sc...

    EGR Delete
    DPF Delete
    ADBlue SCR Delete
    Swirl Flap Delete
>RPM MOTORSPORT LTD. - We are located in Torrance, California and Vancouver, British Columbia.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#143

Post by ryandrake »

oceanplexian wrote: post #134
fsckboy wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My understanding is that such parts are not by themselves illegal. The crime is actually using them on the road. My understanding was that they were legal for track purposes. ok, it's just a single datapoint, but motocross racetracks in New England, already built in the woods away from civilization, started requiring mufflers about 50 years ago, early 1970's

We’re not taking about mufflers. For example in California “Emissions defeat system” means you simply used an off-brand air filter that wasn’t blessed by the government. The parts may even be more efficient and less polluting, the government bureaucracy everyone here is worshipping doesn’t give a rats behind.

Exactly. Years back, I moved to California with an 80's sports car that was admittedly quite hotrodded, but I made very sure that the hotrodding did not worsen its emissions because 1. I wanted to keep driving the car in CA and 2. I don't want to pollute. First SMOG test in CA, the car blew clean as a whistle. It met emissions standards 40 years harsher than it ever had to meet.

Except I had all sorts of aftermarket parts in there from years of repairs, none of them with the all-important California CARB seal of approval on them, so even though it blew clean, it still "failed emissions" and I had to sell it to someone out of state. I'm still bitter about it.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#144

Post by jrwoodruff »

RC_ITR wrote: post #133
kjkjadksj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention good old fashioned overpowered unfocused led lighting. Its been a meme with the truck bros for years, but now these products have entered the general lighting supply. Now your landlord replaces the garage light with one thats brighter than the sun and shines into your bedroom. You will end up like Kramer in the chicken roaster episode of Seinfeld .

Say what you will about over-engineering, but the Germans got it so so so right with their metal full black out shades.

I'm unfamiliar with this, but I'd love some well-done black out shades - got a link or a brand?

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#145

Post by notyourwork »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #141
WirelessGigabit wrote: post #50

This is wonderful. I wish they did the same about modifications done to increase the noise. I've got 2 people living nearby that both have straight-piped their car and I literally cover my ears when they pass by. My Watch literally tells me that a noise peak happened when they drive by.

If you seriously want to take action here, then do this; 1) Look up your city ordinances on sound, there should be copies of this is the reference section of your city's public library. Identify the ordinance and paragraph that the people nearby are violating. Record/video one or more violations on your phone. 2) Call the police, don't "complain about the noise", tell them you want to "swear out a complaint" for viol…

> 2) Call the police, don't "complain about the noise", tell them you want to "swear out a complaint" for violating ordinance x, paragraph y. They are obligated to take your complaint and forward it to the District Attorney[1].

Good luck getting them to pick up. At least where I live (Seattle), I don't think its possible to get someone on the phone unless you call 911. Daytime phones automated system defers everything to online.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#146

Post by dumbfounder »

lokar wrote: post #138
genter wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I believe the officer I talked to didn't care and thought I was a pansy.

This. More so for loud motorcycles, since cops tend to also own them.

I am in favor of louder pipes for motorcycles for safety reasons. But there is such a thing as too loud.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#147

Post by enragedcacti »

RIMR wrote: post #40
richiebful1 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally being tried in court under the Clean Air Act. How does this circumvent due process?

Because the devices aren't illegal, and have legal uses, but eBay is being held responsible for the illegal ways end users use these devices. The only real violation that might have occurred here is not removing listings for these devices where they are explicitly marketed for illegal purposes. Short that, they need to actually justify passing a law outlawing these devices, or they need to enforce the existing laws a…

AFAICT it is up to the EPA whether or not to exempt noncompliant nonroad engines/equipment that are intended solely for competition. I don't think you need to explicitly market a product for illegal purposes for the EPA to determine that it is not unlikely to be used contrary to the intent.

> New nonroad engines/equipment you produce that are used solely for competition are excluded from emission standards. We may exempt (rather than exclude) new nonroad engines/equipment you produce that you intend to be used solely for competition, where we determine that such engines/equipment are unlikely to be used contrary to your intent.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-40/chapter-I/subchapter-U...

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#148

Post by kps »

Scoundreller wrote: post #96

My experience is that eBay screws up their filters and wayyy overfilters. The Canadian government has some secret spat with Xiaomi cellphones and got eBay, newegg and Amazon to stop their sale. They weren’t approved for sale in Canada, but I suspect some other reasoning for targeting a Chinese manufacturer in particular and not all the other unapproved products. However, eBay just blocked anything with “xiaomi” in th…

Maybe they're under a different name, but I don't see any Xiaomi phones on the REL, so I'd guess the ‘secret spat’ is lack of RF certification.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#149

Post by wredue »

Scoundreller wrote: post #96

My experience is that eBay screws up their filters and wayyy overfilters. The Canadian government has some secret spat with Xiaomi cellphones and got eBay, newegg and Amazon to stop their sale. They weren’t approved for sale in Canada, but I suspect some other reasoning for targeting a Chinese manufacturer in particular and not all the other unapproved products. However, eBay just blocked anything with “xiaomi” in th…

The Canadian government “secret spat” doesn’t seem so secret. Xiaomi stuff is laced with various levels of spyware.

There’s also tech relations issues due to huawei shenanigans and back doors.

Re: US sues eBay for allowing sale of emissions defeat devices

#150

Post by dieselgate »

imp0cat wrote: post #131
dieselgate wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To tap into this thread - this is quite real. One can just remove a catalytic converter (or have it stolen) and they'd then be "defeating emissions" so this lawsuit seems a bit zealous to me. Recently saw a post on a diesel truck forum about a CA resident who had legal/registration issues because of an engine swap (post emissions engine into a pre-emissions vehicle) [1] Am under the impression this particular vehicle…

I think the reason is (any diesel mechanics around please correct me if I'm wrong) that modern engines stripped of their emissions equipment will pollute a lot more than old engines.

I understand the reasoning and am all for mitigating pollution. It may be frustrating for consumers when these systems have potential to decrease economy, performance, and reliability while increasing cost and maintenance.
Post reply on HN