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USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

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Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#261

Post by Izkata »

lxgr wrote: post #232
Izkata wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Android user, and for your points 5, 6, 7, and 8 all of mine are USB-A to Micro USB (except for a flashlight bought this year which came with a USB-A to USB-C cable, and I use wraparound bluetooth headphones instead of earbuds and get the feeling those designs are just extremely rarely updated). No displayport or smartwatch here, and my power banks all came with A-to-micro or A-to-C cables (mostly the former)…

> there's a convention in that ecosystem that power flows from the A connector to the other end That's not just a convention, it's a vital part of the specification :) USB-C devices go to significant lengths to make it hard for users to violate that invariant using an unsafe combination of otherwise safe adapters – that's why there is no USB-C-to-A adapter, for example (because that would let you build an A-to-A cabl…

I mean, I feel like they prefer to keep using A-to-C or A-to-Micro because of power flow instead of packaging C-to-C (and from some quick Amazon searches, C output still looks rare, the majority of what I'm seeing is C input and A output on the power bank itself).

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#262

Post by havefunbesafe »

dylan604 wrote: post #215
jdblair wrote: post #197

I used to "bedazzle" my USB cables. Bedazzling is when you decorate something with little plastic reflective jewel stickers. I always put the jewel in the same side (the "top") so I could feel which way the cable should be oriented. Then I could be confident I had the orientation correct without looking. I called this USBedazzling. The other folks in the office didn't think it was a funny as I did.

what if the port was in the opposite orientation, or worse, vertically oriented?

Then you'd have to close your laptop and walk into the woods forever, I suppose...

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#263

Post by mananaysiempre »

hiatus wrote: post #118
ezfe wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue those hubs do not work

It's the same with usb-c extension cords. Our extension cords now need microcontrollers in them, what a time to be alive.

Given those microcontrollers are 0.05 USD at worst, meh, though I acknowledge it sounds a bit crazy if you don’t recognize how cheap micros can be nowadays. Laptop chargers have used similar schemes (perhaps with bare serial EEPROMs instead of MCUs) since forever, FWIW.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#264

Post by fragmede »

Izkata wrote: post #261
lxgr wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's a convention in that ecosystem that power flows from the A connector to the other end That's not just a convention, it's a vital part of the specification :) USB-C devices go to significant lengths to make it hard for users to violate that invariant using an unsafe combination of otherwise safe adapters – that's why there is no USB-C-to-A adapter, for example (because that would let you build an A-to-A cabl…

I mean, I feel like they prefer to keep using A-to-C or A-to-Micro because of power flow instead of packaging C-to-C (and from some quick Amazon searches, C output still looks rare, the majority of what I'm seeing is C input and A output on the power bank itself).

Those C input ports are usually also output ports.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#265

Post by GuB-42 »

lxgr wrote: post #179
aranchelk wrote: post #164

My take on USB-A: aside from audio connectors that have axial symmetry (and have no meaningful orientation), I never used any reversible computer cables prior to USB-C, and that’s not the main issue. Nor is it the axis of symmetry of the casing allowing failed upside down plugin attempts. The shitty part of USB-A is that the tactile feedback of being slightly misaligned is identical to it being upside down. My experi…

> trying in vain to reach behind a heavy computer and unscrew the two jammed retaining bolts holding in a serial, parallel, scsi, vga, or DVI plug with slippery bent plastic jacketed heads Oh yes, that brings back very bad memories. Only gradually did it dawn on me that nothing really bad actually happens if I didn't screw the connectors tight on DVI/VGA etc. :) (Yes, these are technically not plug-and-play, but the…

This is what I do with these (terrible) screw-in connectors.

- Loosely plug in the connector

- Screw in the right side, relatively tight

- Use the right screw as a pivot point, by pushing the plug to the left, this will properly seat in the connector

- Screw in the left side until it touches, do not tighten

To unscrew, use the left side as a pivot point by pushing the plug to the right, this should loosen the right screw, unscrew it, then, unscrew the left side, which shouldn't be tight if you did it correctly.

Note: you can switch left for right and right for left.

The general idea is to wiggle left and right by using the screws as pivots. Do this to unscrew if it is too tight. If only one side is screwed in (don't do that) and it is too tight, screw in the other side and use the pivot trick.

I don't like not screwing these in as they have a tendency to come loose, especially since they also have poor feedback and chances are that they aren't properly inserted to begin with.

And side note: another thing I hate with this plugs is that when you pull out the cable, the plug tends to grab ever other cable that's on their way. In fact, some of these plugs look suspiciously like boat anchors and seem to be just as effective at grabbing stuff.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#266

Post by bigstrat2003 »

layer8 wrote: post #202
aranchelk wrote: post #164

My take on USB-A: aside from audio connectors that have axial symmetry (and have no meaningful orientation), I never used any reversible computer cables prior to USB-C, and that’s not the main issue. Nor is it the axis of symmetry of the casing allowing failed upside down plugin attempts. The shitty part of USB-A is that the tactile feedback of being slightly misaligned is identical to it being upside down. My experi…

The D-sub connectors were pretty intuitive, as far as I can remember. The 9-pin joystick ports never caused much trouble. Making the USB connectors symmetric in their outer shape but not symmetrically pluggable was really inexcusable. When it came out I remember thinking that it was worse than any of the existing connectors. And this is supposed to be the new “universal” connector?

> The D-sub connectors were pretty intuitive, as far as I can remember.

I never personally had a problem with them, but I can attest that people did. At my first job (a small computer shop), we had multiple customers who tried to jam their D-sub connector on wrong, and broke one or more pins off. Since this was back in the day when the cable was hard wired into the monitor, that generally meant they had to buy a new monitor.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#267

Post by nerpderp82 »

USB was a scam from Intel (and Microsoft) to put the PC at center of "your digital life". They both feared that Firewire would be able to send digital streams around and no PC would be necessary.

This man was ideal for the job of USB inventor.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#268

Post by themerone »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #190
snakeyjake wrote: post #140

> Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. This is... not correct. You can make USB reversible with 1 extra pin and 1 extra wire. Grounds on pins 1 and 5, data on pins 2 and 4, and VCC on pin 3. Then have those pins on both sides of the plug and a socket with a single set of contacts on one side. That's BASICALLY what…

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should go. All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor…

They did that from the beginning with USB-B, but they never standardized an orientation.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#269

Post by hedora »

londons_explore wrote: post #259
dylan604 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>edit: Gah! you don't even have to do that just flip the flipping wires) Isn't that essentially what all ethernet cables do? it's not like this something never done before.

Ethernet hardware now has auto-crossover. However, that hasn't always been the case. There was a good decade in the 90's where you needed a special cable wiring if you wanted to connect two computers vs a computer to a switch.

Hah! I recently had to put ends on a Cat 6 cable for weird reasons, and spent a few minutes deciding if it needed to be crossover or not.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#270

Post by bigstrat2003 »

lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

> There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have.

Whether or not this happens, it will have nothing to do with USB-C's merits as a connector. You could (theoretically) have the same mess happen with USB-A connectors as well.

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