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USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

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Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#201

Post by lxgr »

notyourwork wrote: post #195
hellotheretoday wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I knew a few people awhile back that wrecked FireWire audio gear because they forced the connecter in backward and powered it on Even now i do a small repair shop as a side business. Broken hdmi connectors because someone forced the connector in upside down isn’t exactly common but it’s not exactly rare either. Some people think stuff really needs to be forced together, apparently

> isn’t exactly common but it’s not exactly rare either. Using electronics needs a drivers license like equivalent. Some people shouldn't have access to them if getting an HDMI connector wrong is an issue.

I have yet to see people die (and/or kill bystanders) by not being able to plug in an HDMI cable to their home entertainment system correctly.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#202

Post by layer8 »

aranchelk wrote: post #164

My take on USB-A: aside from audio connectors that have axial symmetry (and have no meaningful orientation), I never used any reversible computer cables prior to USB-C, and that’s not the main issue. Nor is it the axis of symmetry of the casing allowing failed upside down plugin attempts. The shitty part of USB-A is that the tactile feedback of being slightly misaligned is identical to it being upside down. My experi…

The D-sub connectors were pretty intuitive, as far as I can remember. The 9-pin joystick ports never caused much trouble.

Making the USB connectors symmetric in their outer shape but not symmetrically pluggable was really inexcusable. When it came out I remember thinking that it was worse than any of the existing connectors. And this is supposed to be the new “universal” connector?

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#203

Post by smolder »

ianferrel wrote: post #149
Ajedi32 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to do a double take after reading this comment to make sure I wasn't reading an old thread from 2014 or something. USB-C has been out for years now and neither of these predictions have come to pass. Your comment aged poorly before you even finished writing it. USB-C isn't without its problems, but neither of those are one of them.

I have USB-C cables that look the same, but some of them carry video and some don't. I have USB-C charging devices that will charge off of some cables, but not off the one that will charge my laptop. I now have a box of weird crappy cheap USB-C cables with taped-on notes that say which toys they'll charge. I never had this problem with previous USBs. If the cable fit in the port, it would charge and transfer data. So…

I don't own any Apple devices myself and don't even have a MBP through work anymore, but I do have a couple of Apple USB-C cables and a spare laptop charger, still. They conveniently seem to work with every kind of device for any use. Data, video, fast charging.

However, I do have one other cable that won't do data. I think it came with a cheap charger I bought while travelling. I would certainly like it if there was a label saying charge only or something to that effect, on the incomplete cable.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#204

Post by m_0x »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #190
snakeyjake wrote: post #140

> Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. This is... not correct. You can make USB reversible with 1 extra pin and 1 extra wire. Grounds on pins 1 and 5, data on pins 2 and 4, and VCC on pin 3. Then have those pins on both sides of the plug and a socket with a single set of contacts on one side. That's BASICALLY what…

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should go. All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor…

> All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor design change.

I disagree. When connecting an HDMI cable I sometimes have issues, especially if in a weird angle.

However I do concede is faster to connect an HDMI than a USB

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#205

Post by Izkata »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #160
Izkata wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an Android user, and for your points 5, 6, 7, and 8 all of mine are USB-A to Micro USB (except for a flashlight bought this year which came with a USB-A to USB-C cable, and I use wraparound bluetooth headphones instead of earbuds and get the feeling those designs are just extremely rarely updated). No displayport or smartwatch here, and my power banks all came with A-to-micro or A-to-C cables (mostly the former)…

Yes, I have seen some products still using micro-B. I've generally just avoided them because I don't want to have to carry another type of cable, so maybe that's colored my perception a bit of how widespread USB-C usage is. For the products you've purchased that came with an A-to-C cable, have you tried using them with a plain C-to-C cable? In my experience usually that will "just work". (Maybe there are some power b…

Just tried plugging my phone into one of those power banks like that: The phone recognized it was plugged into USB, but didn't start charging. The light on the power bank did turn on though, so I redid it with a USB power meter: The power bank was sucking power from my phone at about 3.4 watts.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#206

Post by palata »

Clamchop wrote: post #115
lisper wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And indeed there are usb-c hubs that only work in one orientation so we now have the worst of all possible worlds.

I'm reluctant to consider shoddy or noncompliant implementations as counting against a technology. If I did, then it'd follow that there's no such thing as a good idea, and I could only agree with that if I were having a bad episode of ennui.

> I'm reluctant to consider shoddy or noncompliant implementations as counting against a technology.

I find it interesting that it is typically done with programming languages. "This programming languages allows people to write complicated, unreadable code, hence the language is bad".

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#207

Post by dylan604 »

snakeyjake wrote: post #140

> Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. This is... not correct. You can make USB reversible with 1 extra pin and 1 extra wire. Grounds on pins 1 and 5, data on pins 2 and 4, and VCC on pin 3. Then have those pins on both sides of the plug and a socket with a single set of contacts on one side. That's BASICALLY what…

>edit: Gah! you don't even have to do that just flip the flipping wires)

Isn't that essentially what all ethernet cables do? it's not like this something never done before.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#208

Post by kuratkull »

Hackbraten wrote: post #177
jmbwell wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3) The most fragile part (the wafer in the center of the receptacle) is on the expensive-to-repair device, while the least fragile part is on the cheap-to-replace cable. HDMI makes this same mistake. With USB-A, at least the plastic part on the device is relatively robust, and with Lightning, both plug and socket were rather robust (albeit prone to debris incursion). With older pin-type connectors like VGA and DVI, t…

> The most fragile part (the wafer in the center of the receptacle) is on the expensive-to-repair device, while the least fragile part is on the cheap-to-replace cable. Why do you think that the wafer is the most fragile part? One might argue that the latch mechanism would be the part most exposed to wear and tear due to mechanical stress incurred by plugging and removing. Those side latches are located in the plug,…

Personally my last two phones have had this. It starts slowly - the cables occasionally don't work, then some cables won't work at all, then no cables work without 2 minutes of gentle manipulation, eventually it becomes almost impossible to charge. You waste so much time on this before it gets so bad that you can't live another day with the phone.

I haven't seen a USB-C cable that has wore out.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#209

Post by OnlineGladiator »

evanb wrote: post #144
RajT88 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing that it can take you 3 tries to plug in a USB cable which only has 2 correct ways it can be oriented.

USB is the only macroscopic fermion I know. Try to plug it in and fail, rotate it 180˚ and fail, rotate 180˚ and it plugs in. Must be the minus sign.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-10-04

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#210

Post by notyourwork »

lxgr wrote: post #201
notyourwork wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> isn’t exactly common but it’s not exactly rare either. Using electronics needs a drivers license like equivalent. Some people shouldn't have access to them if getting an HDMI connector wrong is an issue.

I have yet to see people die (and/or kill bystanders) by not being able to plug in an HDMI cable to their home entertainment system correctly.

I suppose the joke went over your head, sorry about that. I found it comical given the HDMI connector shape and how it would be nearly impossible to get wrong without being oblivious.
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