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USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

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Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#71

Post by jjoonathan »

donatj wrote: post #6

It didn't really need to go in either way. It just needed to not be rotationally symmetrical while only going in one way. Firewire only went in one way but it was never an issue because it's shape conveyed a clear orientation.

Hey, they could have made it not rotationally symmetrical but mandated an orientation opposite of the one that makes the socket look like a cute little surprised face, thus ensuring a long, drawn out, losing battle between the correct orientation and the looks-like-a-little-face orientation.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#72

Post by gsich »

lloeki wrote: post #32
donatj wrote: post #6

It didn't really need to go in either way. It just needed to not be rotationally symmetrical while only going in one way. Firewire only went in one way but it was never an issue because it's shape conveyed a clear orientation.

USB-A too: fat part bottom, connectors up, logo up. This also doesn't explain why three-state and five-state also apply to resp. mini+micro USB-A and USB-B. Oh wait, people don't look at the port front and center and fail to memorize the port direction, irrespective of shape, that's why.

Logo up is no help when you try to do it in the dark.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#73

Post by gsich »

donatj wrote: post #6

It didn't really need to go in either way. It just needed to not be rotationally symmetrical while only going in one way. Firewire only went in one way but it was never an issue because it's shape conveyed a clear orientation.

Firewire ports can be inserted the wrong way, if the material cheapens out you are in bad luck. Wrong polarity will most likely kill the other device.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#74

Post by Ajedi32 »

lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

I had to do a double take after reading this comment to make sure I wasn't reading an old thread from 2014 or something.

USB-C has been out for years now and neither of these predictions have come to pass. Your comment aged poorly before you even finished writing it.

USB-C isn't without its problems, but neither of those are one of them.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#75

Post by sbjs »

> Sometime later, I also learned that "three" is usually the magic number for correctly plugging in a USB Type-A device. It's a maddening dance and it begs the question, why wasn't the Universal Serial Bus designed with a reversible connector from the outset?

Honestly when this is the biggest problem you face on a daily basis, your life must be relatively easy.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#76

Post by gs17 »

mmac_ wrote: post #14

One of my earliest experiences with USB was back in the day where I had a PC without any USB front ports that were free. So I grabbed my USB thumb drive and reached around the back of the PC tower and plugged it in without looking. USB didn't show up in the O/S. Thought maybe it wasn't formatted correctly and went through some diagnostics. Eventually went for the remove it / plug it back in technique. Had a look at t…

Done exactly the same thing. No idea why they sized it that way, at least it usually doesn't break anything.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#77

Post by Ajedi32 »

tzs wrote: post #64
lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

I wish there was a requirement that USB C cables must have sort of ID chip that can be easily read that tells what the cable supports, so that we could have simple testers that you can plug a cable into and be told what speed and power it supports.

That exists. It's called an e-marker and you can buy testers for about $60 that will read it for you. If a cable doesn't have one of those markers then odds are it can't handle over 5 amps or USB 2.0 speeds.

It is kind of annoying that that functionality isn't built into phones and PCs though. There was some talk about building support into the Linux kernel[1] but it doesn't seem like that went anywhere.

[1]: https://people.kernel.org/bleung/now-how-many-usb-c-to-usb-c...

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#78

Post by MBCook »

moffkalast wrote: post #69
_moof wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first iMac was USB only. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3#Specifications

It is genuinely surprising that out of all companies Apple was the one to pioneer USB usage. Quite the stark contrast with their current modus operandi of always making something custom so it can be as incompatible as possible with anything non-Apple (and so they can sell more dongles). Well until they were dragged kicking and screaming to USB-C by the EU anyway.

Are you referring to the 30 pin connector, which did stuff no other connector did?

Or lightning, which was smaller and easier than anything else available since USB-C didn’t exist?

You already mentioned USB. Perhaps FireWire? SCSI? Those were all standard.

Oh. Laptop power connections? There was no standard until USB-C, which they use.

People repeat this, but it hasn’t really been true since they gave up all the custom stuff with the iMac.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#79

Post by MayeulC »

lloeki wrote: post #32
donatj wrote: post #6

It didn't really need to go in either way. It just needed to not be rotationally symmetrical while only going in one way. Firewire only went in one way but it was never an issue because it's shape conveyed a clear orientation.

USB-A too: fat part bottom, connectors up, logo up. This also doesn't explain why three-state and five-state also apply to resp. mini+micro USB-A and USB-B. Oh wait, people don't look at the port front and center and fail to memorize the port direction, irrespective of shape, that's why.

Female (host) USB-A orientation is not always consistent, thought, which adds to the confusion. Thought the orientation you de scribe is the most common zone, I can recall at l'East two devices (laptop and desktop) where it was reversed.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#80

Post by dmonitor »

moffkalast wrote: post #69
_moof wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first iMac was USB only. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMac_G3#Specifications

It is genuinely surprising that out of all companies Apple was the one to pioneer USB usage. Quite the stark contrast with their current modus operandi of always making something custom so it can be as incompatible as possible with anything non-Apple (and so they can sell more dongles). Well until they were dragged kicking and screaming to USB-C by the EU anyway.

you’re completely forgetting Apple being the first company to go all-in on USB C with their laptops.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/3/9/8174219/apple-macbook-usb-...

It was really only the iPhone that lagged behind, and that’s because they switched to lightning not but a couple years before USB C was finalized, pissing off everyone who invested in the 20-pin connector ecosystem.

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