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USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

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Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#191

Post by CarVac »

bandrami wrote: post #99
jmbwell wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3) The most fragile part (the wafer in the center of the receptacle) is on the expensive-to-repair device, while the least fragile part is on the cheap-to-replace cable. HDMI makes this same mistake. With USB-A, at least the plastic part on the device is relatively robust, and with Lightning, both plug and socket were rather robust (albeit prone to debris incursion). With older pin-type connectors like VGA and DVI, t…

The worst connector for that problem is those ----ing antenna leads your laptop has for an M2 wifi card.

Those connectors are good for one connection and no disconnections.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#192

Post by davidgay »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #190
snakeyjake wrote: post #140

> Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. This is... not correct. You can make USB reversible with 1 extra pin and 1 extra wire. Grounds on pins 1 and 5, data on pins 2 and 4, and VCC on pin 3. Then have those pins on both sides of the plug and a socket with a single set of contacts on one side. That's BASICALLY what…

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should go. All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor…

That only works when you can see the place you're connecting to, or have used it many times.

I've definitely cursed many times failing to plug in non-rectangular VGA, serial and parallel cables ;)

[edit: it is still better, but not a panacea]

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#193

Post by stevage »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #190
snakeyjake wrote: post #140

> Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. This is... not correct. You can make USB reversible with 1 extra pin and 1 extra wire. Grounds on pins 1 and 5, data on pins 2 and 4, and VCC on pin 3. Then have those pins on both sides of the plug and a socket with a single set of contacts on one side. That's BASICALLY what…

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should go. All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor…

Even having a bump on the rubber moulding as part of the standard would have solved the problem.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#194

Post by userbinator »

snakeyjake wrote: post #140

> Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. This is... not correct. You can make USB reversible with 1 extra pin and 1 extra wire. Grounds on pins 1 and 5, data on pins 2 and 4, and VCC on pin 3. Then have those pins on both sides of the plug and a socket with a single set of contacts on one side. That's BASICALLY what…

There are also reversible USB plugs that are a single "tongue", inheriting that design from USB drives that don't have any plug to speak of but look more like a card-edge connector:

https://www.pcgamer.com/youre-telling-me-we-could-have-had-r...

https://2b.com.eg/en/2b-cv177-cable-usb-type-a-reversible-pl...

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#195

Post by notyourwork »

hellotheretoday wrote: post #168
donatj wrote: post #6

It didn't really need to go in either way. It just needed to not be rotationally symmetrical while only going in one way. Firewire only went in one way but it was never an issue because it's shape conveyed a clear orientation.

Counterpoint: I knew a few people awhile back that wrecked FireWire audio gear because they forced the connecter in backward and powered it on Even now i do a small repair shop as a side business. Broken hdmi connectors because someone forced the connector in upside down isn’t exactly common but it’s not exactly rare either. Some people think stuff really needs to be forced together, apparently

> isn’t exactly common but it’s not exactly rare either.

Using electronics needs a drivers license like equivalent. Some people shouldn't have access to them if getting an HDMI connector wrong is an issue.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#196

Post by pixl97 »

sokoloff wrote: post #173
Ajedi32 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to do a double take after reading this comment to make sure I wasn't reading an old thread from 2014 or something. USB-C has been out for years now and neither of these predictions have come to pass. Your comment aged poorly before you even finished writing it. USB-C isn't without its problems, but neither of those are one of them.

I have many USB-C cables that don't behave like other USB-C cables. Just this past week, I had to buy another cable for my son's desk setup because of the many USB-C cables I had, I was out of the ones that would carry 4K video and USB-C 80+W PD to his laptop at the same time. (I had a couple that worked, but they were in use for my wife and I, and the couple handfuls of others I had were capable of zero or one of th…

I'm not sure if that's the best example...

Kinda like saying that I have a bunch of very light indoor extension cords and you are wanting to run an outdoor high amperage device (both 110v in this example). Yea, the interface for both is the same, but one is going to be used far less often and require a much more expensive cable for a reason.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#197

Post by jdblair »

I used to "bedazzle" my USB cables. Bedazzling is when you decorate something with little plastic reflective jewel stickers. I always put the jewel in the same side (the "top") so I could feel which way the cable should be oriented. Then I could be confident I had the orientation correct without looking.

I called this USBedazzling. The other folks in the office didn't think it was a funny as I did.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#198

Post by lxgr »

postmodest wrote: post #178
aranchelk wrote: post #164

My take on USB-A: aside from audio connectors that have axial symmetry (and have no meaningful orientation), I never used any reversible computer cables prior to USB-C, and that’s not the main issue. Nor is it the axis of symmetry of the casing allowing failed upside down plugin attempts. The shitty part of USB-A is that the tactile feedback of being slightly misaligned is identical to it being upside down. My experi…

At least PS/2 cables were mostly made with "keyed" rubber jackets where one side was flat and the other rounded, so in the dark you could tell which way was up. (Though, that keyboard and mouse were different ports was stupid, so it loses points there)

Never have I been able to successfully plug a PS/2 port in by haptics alone.

I can totally see how they were designed to theoretically allow for it; practically, the tactile feedback for the correct orientation is just way too subtle.

And regarding the two different ports: I can't remember (or rather, I was never motivated to revisit the plugs once connected to experiment, since it was such a pain) – was there a technical reason for that, or could modern mainboards/BIOSes/OSes detect and correct for that?

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#199

Post by tester756 »

devit wrote: post #81

If you have a reversible connector, then you might be entangled in a dilemma of which way is the "better" or "optimal" or "canonical" way, while with a non-reversible one there is only one way and thus no dilemma. And in fact USB-C is not really physically reversible, because the hardware detects which way it's plugged in and permutes the signals, as opposed to mirroring all the wires, so there is indeed a "right" wa…

I can swear I've felt that when I incorrectly plugged my USB-C to dock station, then I had some crazy issues e.g related to bluetooth. I tried restarts, adapter unplugs, etc, etc.

But when I unplugged the cable and reversed it then the issue disappeared

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#200

Post by rzzzt »

stevage wrote: post #193
whoooooo123 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with USB-a isn't that it's non reversible, it's that it's non-reversible _and_ rectangular, so it's not clear at a glance which way round it should go. All they had to do was make the connector have a non-symmetrical shape so that it's immediately obvious which way round it goes when you pick it up - you could do it without even looking. Think of how much time we'd have collectively saved with this minor…

Even having a bump on the rubber moulding as part of the standard would have solved the problem.

The USB symbol goes on top, IIRC.

Edit: ninja'd by an enormous amount of people elsewhere in the thread, gah.

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