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USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

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Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#81

Post by devit »

If you have a reversible connector, then you might be entangled in a dilemma of which way is the "better" or "optimal" or "canonical" way, while with a non-reversible one there is only one way and thus no dilemma.

And in fact USB-C is not really physically reversible, because the hardware detects which way it's plugged in and permutes the signals, as opposed to mirroring all the wires, so there is indeed a "right" way of inserting an USB-C plug, except it's impossible to tell which it is without a dedicated hardware tester.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#82

Post by MBCook »

OJFord wrote: post #8
cheaprentalyeti wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they made the connector reversible, you'd have to try to plug it in five times to get the right orientation instead of just three...

I, genuinely, have a USB-C cable which will only charge my phone in one orientation. That's worse than Type-A, since I can't even look at the end to see which side has the plastic bar, I just have to try it and obviously it fits, but see if it charges. Which means it takes about 94 attempts because I only realise the other end's not plugged in, or it's turned off at the wall, on the 92nd.

I’ve noticed that in devices that aren’t truly USB-C but seem to be USB-B with a C connector.

They work fine with an A-C cable, even when using that with a C-A dongle. But often only one way up.

They’re clearly noncompliant. Not that that stops anyone.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#83

Post by jmbwell »

lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

3) The most fragile part (the wafer in the center of the receptacle) is on the expensive-to-repair device, while the least fragile part is on the cheap-to-replace cable. HDMI makes this same mistake. With USB-A, at least the plastic part on the device is relatively robust, and with Lightning, both plug and socket were rather robust (albeit prone to debris incursion). With older pin-type connectors like VGA and DVI, the fragile pins are completely on the replaceable cable.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#84

Post by northwest65 »

gsich wrote: post #72
lloeki wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-A too: fat part bottom, connectors up, logo up. This also doesn't explain why three-state and five-state also apply to resp. mini+micro USB-A and USB-B. Oh wait, people don't look at the port front and center and fail to memorize the port direction, irrespective of shape, that's why.

Logo up is no help when you try to do it in the dark.

You can feel it with the pad of your thumb.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#85

Post by MBCook »

dmonitor wrote: post #80
moffkalast wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is genuinely surprising that out of all companies Apple was the one to pioneer USB usage. Quite the stark contrast with their current modus operandi of always making something custom so it can be as incompatible as possible with anything non-Apple (and so they can sell more dongles). Well until they were dragged kicking and screaming to USB-C by the EU anyway.

you’re completely forgetting Apple being the first company to go all-in on USB C with their laptops. https://www.theverge.com/2015/3/9/8174219/apple-macbook-usb-... It was really only the iPhone that lagged behind, and that’s because they switched to lightning not but a couple years before USB C was finalized, pissing off everyone who invested in the 20-pin connector ecosystem.

That always annoyed me. I get that people had to change cables for the first time since they got their first iPod, but lightning was such a MASSIVE improvement over the 30 pin dock connector… I can’t imagine anyone would want to go back.

I was really expecting something similar with the USB-C switch but it doesn’t seem to have happened.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#86

Post by alanbernstein »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #74
lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

I had to do a double take after reading this comment to make sure I wasn't reading an old thread from 2014 or something. USB-C has been out for years now and neither of these predictions have come to pass. Your comment aged poorly before you even finished writing it. USB-C isn't without its problems, but neither of those are one of them.

I own a usb-c male to usb-c female extension cable that I connect to a yubikey. The yubikey only works in one orientation. I don't have any other bits to test hypotheses with, but I believe the cable was made with the symmetry problem described above.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#87

Post by RandallBrown »

tinus_hn wrote: post #39
nubinetwork wrote: post #4

I've seen people try to connect ps/2 and vga cables upside down, and mash all the pins in the process. I'm fine with flipping a USB cable over a couple times until it goes in. /shrug

You can also insert the USB-a connector upside down, if you use enough force. It won’t really break anything but it will bend the plastic part so it becomes hard to insert the right way.

I've seen reversible USB connectors that just have flexible pins that bend up or down depending on how the port is oriented.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#88

Post by pclmulqdq »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #74
lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

I had to do a double take after reading this comment to make sure I wasn't reading an old thread from 2014 or something. USB-C has been out for years now and neither of these predictions have come to pass. Your comment aged poorly before you even finished writing it. USB-C isn't without its problems, but neither of those are one of them.

Wait, there already are PD-specific cables, video-specific cables, and the like. If your cable is short enough, it's not an issue, but if you want one longer than 1 meter, you will likely have problems with 4k video on a cable that isn't specifically designed for high data rates.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#89

Post by aenvoker »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #74
lesuorac wrote: post #13

I know everybody is still on the high from USB-C but I'm still going to go on the record it will be one of the biggest disasters in cable history. 1) There's going to be video-only cables; low-voltage only cables; etc and this time everything is usb-c so you can literally only tell which ables work by testing all of the dozen cables instead of the 1-2 USB-As you have. 2) The connector is symmetrical but the pins aren…

I had to do a double take after reading this comment to make sure I wasn't reading an old thread from 2014 or something. USB-C has been out for years now and neither of these predictions have come to pass. Your comment aged poorly before you even finished writing it. USB-C isn't without its problems, but neither of those are one of them.

I have a USB-C cable that only charges when oriented one way.

Re: USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible (2019)

#90

Post by RajT88 »

donatj wrote: post #6

It didn't really need to go in either way. It just needed to not be rotationally symmetrical while only going in one way. Firewire only went in one way but it was never an issue because it's shape conveyed a clear orientation.

It's amazing that it can take you 3 tries to plug in a USB cable which only has 2 correct ways it can be oriented.
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