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Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

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Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#251

Post by Nextgrid »

midasuni wrote: post #246
Nextgrid wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when they do catch you it generally results in consequences beyond giving the stolen goods back. TLDR: don’t shoplift, instead make a company and defraud consumers. It’s more profitable and less risky at the same time!

Majority of shoplifters that are caught (a tiny number) have nothing more than maybe giving the goods back. Same with bike thefts.

You do at the very least end up with a criminal record which might hurt future job prospects and increases the sentence if you're caught again.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#252

Post by geysersam »

explaininjs wrote: post #242
geysersam wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flat rate just won't work, ever, it's a doomed idea. We need political decision about what kind of emissions are acceptable and what kinds are not. No way basic necessities, food, transportation should be taxed the same rate as luxury houses and yachts/private jets. It's not realistic.

Why not? If it’s truly about the environment then everyone should pay based on their environmental impact. Sure, if carbon/methane/whatever can be shown to have a higher environmental impact when emitted at altitude or whatever, take that into account. But placing the environment second to specifically target the “luxury” as some sort of way to “get” the rich is only harming your case.

No. It's about maximizing value per emission. The value of luxury goods is less than basic necessities (it's stuff we can live without by definition) so the rate should compensate for that.

I would accept a flat rate if each person got a fixed amount of emissions assigned to them and each person could decide to sell or keep their "emission right". Then everyone would have enough for basic needs.

In practice the results would be similar.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#253

Post by Jenda_ »

novaRom wrote: post #130
mariusor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the distances where night trains are feasible "a fraction of time" is not really true if you take into account the time costs associated with air travel: * airports are usually far at the outskirts of a capital (45m travel there) * you need to get to the airport 2h before to checking-in/passport control, etc. * you need to wait to pick up your baggage (30m) * travel into the city again (45m) Not to mention the st…

Drinking water. But you can buy 500mg of water for 5 Euros of course, right? Traveling as a family with with children, and when your departure is delayed, you can spend quite a bit just to stay hydrated.

Fortunately, many airports have taps with drinking water available. I don't understand why not all (e.g. no drinking tap & warm water only is available on the toilets), it feels like a conspiracy by the 5-Euros-water sellers.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#254

Post by kdmccormick »

short_sells_poo wrote: post #238
kdmccormick wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This confuses me, because it seems like almost everyone I talk to, across the political spectrum, thinks airport security is overkill. Conservatives could argue for reducing it because it might save money, and liberals could argue for reducing it because it might reduce incidence if racial profiling.

And yet nobody is actually doing anything about it... I wonder why.

Yeah, I am not saying you're wrong, I am honestly just confused by it.

Perhaps it's that few pols are willing to roll back restrictions and then be "responsible" next time there's a terrorist attack. Kinda like how Dukakis was big into rehabilition and forgiveness for prisoners, which was great until a released prisoner committed violent crimes and of course then the blame is laid on Dukakis.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#255

Post by worik »

jltsiren wrote: post #191
reacharavindh wrote: post #175

I have taken the car train from Hamburg to Vienna as a family. Pure luxury and comfort! We drive from Denmark to Hamburg(with a 2 year old), and load the fully packed car(stroller, luggages gifts for the in-laws etc) into the train at a special entrance, and walk into the coaches. We booked a private cabin/room for more privacy and also because we have a two year old. There were quite comfortable bunk booths as well…

This, like many other ideas combining cars and public transport, sounds like something that doesn't scale. The exact numbers vary, but the passenger capacity of a car train is usually something like 1/2 of a normal night train or 1/3 of a normal day train, assuming that the train is fully dedicated to carrying people with cars. You also need special facilities and longer stops, because cars can't just dismount at nor…

People mostly won't take their cars. Some will, but it will be much cheaper to hire cars at both ends.

The future of personal transport is not IMO private personal cars, but this will help the transition

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#256

Post by worik »

gpvos wrote: post #244
asdff wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can really consider the environment here as there are too many variables to consider in a reliable model. E.g. its not clear that replacing that entire planes worth of peoples trips with another routing would even net a gain, if people might have to do more circuitous routing that take more time and distance, or take different modes of transit that aren't a fully electrified rail that goes end to en…

I understand that some comparisons with realistic assumptions have been made. Notably, high-speed trains cause significantly more emissions than classical trains, but are still better than planes.

Are high sped trains worth the extra capital and operating expense?

I love trains.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#257

Post by petre »

dheera wrote: post #229
petre wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better bring a sack of fruit with high water content then. Maybe the security doesn't have enough imagination to clasify them as "liquids". For instance China is an exporter of pomelo. The fruit is also used as a good luck charm, consumed during the mid-autumn festival and used in Ganesh Chaturthi celebrations in India, so you could claim it's for "religious use" if they try to confiscate it.

Have you ever tried to eat a pomelo on airplane, let alone cut one open with the only shitty plastic knives you can get on board?

You can peel it without a knife. A bamboo knife is a lot more useful than plastic crap. Or get a Revolut Metal card. Perfect for opening pomelos, also perfectly acceptable for travel.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#258

Post by Reason077 »

mprovost wrote: post #110
rubicon33 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite as bad. Yes they scan your luggage but shoes stay on and it’s not some crazy full body X-Ray scan

And no liquid restrictions. They have special trays for the x-ray machines so you can bring in your coffee without spilling. And you can come back from France with a box of 12 wine bottles no problem.

The UK ditched airport liquid restrictions in December 2022 (although airports have until June 2024 to implement the change). Specifically, the 100ml rule is now a 2 litre rule.

Generally speaking you don’t have to remove shoes at UK airports, either.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#259

Post by albert180 »

ornornor wrote: post #230
albert180 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because you bought the ticket from ÖBB so they are responsible for refunds too. It's still a Train operated by MAV (and you also can buy tickets from them directly) and the ÖBB Nightjet Website explicitly tells you: "Der Umfang und die Qualität der Serviceleistungen in einem EuroNight Zug und das eingesetzte Wagenmaterial weichen vom Angebot des ÖBB Nightjets ab." "The scope and quality of the services in a Euron…

Okay. Isn’t it a technicality though? In the end of the day, ÖBB sells this through their website so they should stand behind it. It’s too easy to sell anything and everything and say “caveat emptor, it might be total shit or maybe not but in any case I’m only here to take your money.” See Amazon and how happy people in general are with their comingling problem. That’s my opinion anyway, feel free to have your own.

No it's not a technicality? I can buy tickets from Deutsche Bahn for all kind of European Train Operators, including ÖBB Nightjet. It's just a nice service to have a unified booking system

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#260

Post by jryle70 »

nologic01 wrote: post #247
jryle70 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Train is also subsidized. In fact, while air transport benefits from tax exemption, train receives substantial infrastructure subsidy. The following report puts rail subsidy to be around 75B EUR, whereas air within 27B to 35B. The study is from 2007, but I doubt it has changed much. https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/technical_report_2007...

Very informative report. But as per its conclusion: "subsidies could be justified to balance the existence of external costs of competing modes, e.g. when an internalisation of the externality, for whatever reason, encounters strong political opposition from vested interests. This applies to some of the subsidies for public transport, especially rail, since its competing modes, particularly road and air, have signifi…

It may very well be that rail subsidy makes sense and air subsidy doesn't. I'm not arguing for or against it. The original question pertains to why air ticket is cheaper than train. You and a number of posters here attributed that to subsidy, and I just wanted to point out that rail transport in Europe receives even larger subsidy than air transport.

There are many factors affecting pricing, for example occupancy rate. Load factor of aircrafts are in the 80 percentage - [0], whereas it's often under 60% for long distance Deutsche Bahn's trains in Germany - [1]

Another possibility is that train operators are often state owned and therefore face less competition and are less efficient than airliners, who are used to operate in a cutthroat environment.

Note that I don't claim either of the above cause train's pricing disadvantage, merely they are factors to consider. OTOTH attributing pricing advantage to subsidy is a lazy take of a complex issue.

[0] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/658830/passenger-load-fa...

[1] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/654973/long-distance-tra...

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