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Re: undefined

#81
post #36

Since the left abandoned traditional left topics like helping the poor and the right has adopted them, but with a twist of only the poor of their own nationality, the poorer people get, the more likely it is they'll listen to those right wing voices. And the more people are in this my nation your nation boat, the more likely it is that conflicts happen. The powers that be are pushing towards this new world war with a…

Your take is an interesting one and demonstrates a high degree of insight. The points about war having an economic motive and the trajectory of politics is particularly perceptive. I'm interested in what news sources you consume, if you'd like to share.

You also show an obvious dislike of US / NATO interference, and suggest that it is the only main actor.

However, it's likely there are other actors that are just less "out", yet nevertheless just as active. China (?? does anyone know the name of the relevant division?), for example, and Russia (Alpha Group), are both involved in covert actions around the world hundreds of times per year. Five Eyes intelligence agencies are constantly involved in collaborative operations with each other in a huge range of countries, as well. Added to that, we have said nothing about cyber activities, which are increasingly important. All of these activities are driven by strategic goals, are likely significant, and collectively it is conceivable they do much to move the needle of world affairs, even if they are never covered in the news.

The US may simply have the (unfortunate?) role of being the vanguard or front man for many events or instabilities, when the truth is, there are many other actors involved behind the scenes. In this way US dominance can function in the media as a convenient cover to explain, or blame, but effectively conceal the true power brokers behind the scenes. Such concealment would likely be prudent operational security that the network of hidden actors would seek to actively cultivate.

The US as main actor, while undoubtedly based in truth, may be more of a convenient fiction than is portrayed in the media. This misperception could lead to a degree hatred of the US by some individuals and groups that is not warranted by reality of its activities or influence.

China may not yet be "out" in an overt sense, but I doubt they are any less aggressive, inherently. Their modus operandi right now seems to be pick fights with a thin veneer of plausible deniability: the fentanyl trade and cartel manipulation seems to be a glaring example. An incredibly aggressive action, yet carried out with a kind of shyness that suggests both a will to dominance but a hesitation at the threshold, as if they feel they are not quite ready to be seen to be starting the street fight. So, they'd rather just bump into you on the street, and pretend they weren't looking: "Oh, sorry. Didn't see you there."

But, if challenged would readily use the very pretext they were seeking to create to play the fake victim and start the fight. But not bold enough yet to be seen to start the fight. Even so, in the silence, both parties knew the Chinese had tensed up their shoulder to deliver the blow, showing indeed they had seen you there, and indeed that they had deliberately walked into you with the very intention of starting a fight! Yet had done it by trying to provoke you to start the fight they wanted to have!

Importantly, this kind of behavior shows that they expect the world to part for them, and that they expect the world to yield for them, as they pass through in their self-anointed "rightful position". Likely they feel unhappy with how they feel the world has so far failed to yield for them, in the way that they want it to, feel it "should", and feel "they deserve."

This aggression with deception suggests that they want the dominance and respect, but do not yet feel bold enough to take it, nor scream it in your face that you owe it them.

Instead, they require that you must give them permission first by creating the first initial overt aggression. So, that is what they seek to provoke with their "concealed aggression" strategy: the initial overt aggression.

So while China is clearly an example of an actor that is active, at the same time, this concealed stance clearly displays weakness, and in effect they are making themselves slaved to the permission of another, to achieve what they want. A kind of weird co-dependency, and the wrong path, I think.

This kind of attitude seems to characterise the Chinese culture psyche at this time. They must feel it is nearly time for their dominance, they are chafing at the bit, but they have not yet given themselves permission to take themselves off the leash. They do not yet want to own their actions. So, something is still holding them back. I wonder what it is? A pretext? A red-line provocation? A chance to play 'ultimate victim'? A sense of having truly "earned" their place? I'm not sure.

People often say China will not rush to war, and that any conflict between China and another country, either over Taiwan, or any other issue, is a god-damned long way off. With all that being said, I have a feeling you may seem that act sooner than you think. I initially balked at some seeming hawks estimates of 2025, but now? I think anything could happen. Critical temperature for phase transition is a useful concept here, I think.

Of course, I hope none of this transpires, and everyone just gets along, everyday with mutual respect, consideration and goodness. Please, let that be so. I truly hope they can achieve their healing of past trauma through their own success, and not through seeking or expecting the domination, servitude or tribute of some other.

Despite this, it is clear the Chinese would like to rid themselves of the memories of "sick man of Asia" and "century of humiliation", but may not yet feel ready for outright confrontation, so attempt acting aggressively in a concealed way. These kind of thin concealments may not provide disguise for much longer, and in a very real sense, the tension is clearly and obviously building. In this light, it seems the idea that the US is responsible for provocation entirely is more fantasy than reality.

Re: undefined

#82
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China can buy energy from Russia and the Middle East They already do. But they won't have anywhere to sell their products. Most of their economy gone just like that. > China is coupled to the West in a way that makes the West at least a dependent on China as China is on the West. Nope. For west decoupling means higher inflation but lower unemployment and faster growth. You win more than you lose. For China it means…

But they won't have anywhere to sell their products. Most of their economy gone just like that. The internal Chinese economy* is at 80% as against 20% for exports.** Of those exports, the US plus Europe are about 30%. In other words, if the entire West is decoupled from China's economy, the Chinese economy still has 80%+ (70% of 20% = 14%) or a total of 94% left. The West is not actually as important as it thinks. *…

This is a good analysis. People need to hear it. Do you have sources for these numbers?

Re: undefined

#83
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-10423-the-beginni ... Ah yes, why wouldn't I believe a pro Russian source about whats happening in Ukraine. That would totally be an unbiased source based in reality and not trying to push a narrative in anyway shape or form.

I guess everybody is trying to push a narrative, and in general, where if we're being honest, gauging true intent and accuracy is hard, it seems a good strategy to consume a wide cross-section of resources if you hope to build up an accurate picture. I also personally find the "reading between the lines" approach useful. Propaganda pieces often contain interesting stances, useful facts omitted in publications with di…

> I guess everybody is trying to push a narrative, and in general, where if we're being honest, gauging true intent and accuracy is hard, it seems a good strategy to consume a wide cross-section of resources if you hope to build up an accurate picture.

Yeah but theres a big difference between the obvious rabid Russian propaganda and people having a narrative.

The firehose of falsehood is a known Russian propaganda method to muddy the waters and they have used it extensively in Ukraine.

Re: undefined

#84

Not close. China can't afford it. They are mid economic ruin and can't afford a sustained conflict. Russia is almost out of ammo. Desperately trying to generate more. Suffering from a lot of brain drain. Middle easy is in fighting. There's no way they'd jump into such a war. Nobody wants to directly attack a nato country. who else would be involved?

No-one can 'afford' a world war now that all the big powers have nuclear weapons, even the scale of opposing convential forces is too much. Therefore, no-one is going to start one.

The MAD principle is predicated on conventional ballistic missiles being used as the primary delivery mechanism. First strike launch is detected, then responded to.

In 2023, the options for hiding or obscuring delivery attribution are much greater than in the Cold War.

MAD still mostly holds, but not as much as it used to, and it's likely that attribution will get harder as time goes on.

One can also never discount the human psychologies of ego and "fuck it". No human being is immune, and no sufficiently angry political group is immune. It would be comforting if the "world leaders are actually lizard people" conspiracy theory were true, because human impulse control can never be fully trusted.

Re: undefined

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. They can buy oil. But, how will it make it to China in a war? With sanctions applied by the US Navy. And what about basic necessities like food? China can only meet 65% of it’s food needs. China is completely vulnerable and dependent on the west, in a way that Russia is not.

> With sanctions applied by the US Navy. Well, since no-one wants to start WWIII, the US Navy isn't going to attack Chinese ships, especially if escorted by the Chinese Navy. QED. We're used to see the US behave like they can do anything they want but that's only because they are usually orders of magnitude stronger than the opposition. But if the opposition was of similar strength they would be much more restrained…

(Internal US) Politics aside, didn't Nancy Pelosi extend a middle finger and landed to Taiwan in 2022? For me that was an unanswered slap in Xi's face.

Re: undefined

#86
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess everybody is trying to push a narrative, and in general, where if we're being honest, gauging true intent and accuracy is hard, it seems a good strategy to consume a wide cross-section of resources if you hope to build up an accurate picture. I also personally find the "reading between the lines" approach useful. Propaganda pieces often contain interesting stances, useful facts omitted in publications with di…

> I guess everybody is trying to push a narrative, and in general, where if we're being honest, gauging true intent and accuracy is hard, it seems a good strategy to consume a wide cross-section of resources if you hope to build up an accurate picture. Yeah but theres a big difference between the obvious rabid Russian propaganda and people having a narrative. The firehose of falsehood is a known Russian propaganda me…

Do you have some examples of stuff that you would consider obvious rabid Russian propaganda? And then different stuff of people having a narrative?

I'd like to compare them myself. In general I find it useful to read a wide variety of sources, and I can't see myself excluding something from consideration by labeling it propaganda. For many reasons as I stated above, that seems prejudicial and unwise, when reading it could be useful and informative.

An additional trouble is raised by your point, in that, by prejudging articles as being likely propaganda and then excluding them from your consideration, you risk making yourself vulnerable to manipulation by whoever you trust to label content as propaganda or not. In effect, by trusting propaganda labelling you may end up supporting, or even being victim to, what you seek to prevent and protect yourself from!

Therefore I'm interested to know more about your examples, in the hope that I can learn more and discover if I really think there is a distinction to be had there! Distinguishing obvious propaganda from narrative seems like it could be challenging, so I'm eagerly awaiting any examples you could provide in order to educate myself more. Please share! :)

Re: undefined

#87
post #74

Russia is quietly sapping the strength of Ukraine, NATO and the EU, and Israel is reaping the harvest from sowing discontent in the region for decades. One day, a dozen angry palestinians who have been tirelessly beaten by the Israelis, are going to do something truly terrible to Israel, and there isn't anything they can do about it aside form make peace now. Also, stop watching the news. It's poison.

> Russia is quietly sapping the strength of Ukraine, NATO and the EU, and Israel is reaping the harvest from sowing discontent in the region for decades. I think it's the other way around, Ukraine is decimating Russias fighting strength, theres no other real way to explain Russias reactivation of T62 tanks and its frankentechnicals that it has been making from any spare gun it can find and a MTLB.

Nonsense.

Ukraine ceased to exist as an independent entity quite some time ago. It 's hanging on only because NATO and EU are propping it up.

As soon as the USA finds a new thing, and the EU/NATO realise they have been played, then Ukraine will be done.

Re: undefined

#88
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China can buy energy from Russia and the Middle East They already do. But they won't have anywhere to sell their products. Most of their economy gone just like that. > China is coupled to the West in a way that makes the West at least a dependent on China as China is on the West. Nope. For west decoupling means higher inflation but lower unemployment and faster growth. You win more than you lose. For China it means…

But they won't have anywhere to sell their products. Most of their economy gone just like that. The internal Chinese economy* is at 80% as against 20% for exports.** Of those exports, the US plus Europe are about 30%. In other words, if the entire West is decoupled from China's economy, the Chinese economy still has 80%+ (70% of 20% = 14%) or a total of 94% left. The West is not actually as important as it thinks. *…

> The Chinese internal market size is four times the size of the US market for consumer goods. And that's apart from the the Chinese rolling in cash reserves that lets them afford to build lots of infrastructure, just like the US was able to build back in the 1950s and 1960s.

I was under the impression that large amounts of the infrastructure projects were debt-financed. Is this not the case?

Re: undefined

#89
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-one can 'afford' a world war now that all the big powers have nuclear weapons, even the scale of opposing convential forces is too much. Therefore, no-one is going to start one.

The MAD principle is predicated on conventional ballistic missiles being used as the primary delivery mechanism. First strike launch is detected, then responded to. In 2023, the options for hiding or obscuring delivery attribution are much greater than in the Cold War. MAD still mostly holds, but not as much as it used to, and it's likely that attribution will get harder as time goes on. One can also never discount t…

The reality is that nuclear weapons are not made to be used, they are made to prevent a full scale attack/invasion.

No-one is going to start WWIII and/or launch a nuclear attack against another nuclear power.

When North Korea builds nuclear weapons, for instance, it's not to attack it's not to end up like Iraq.

Those would claim otherwise are the ones who inspired Dr Strangelove.

Re: undefined

#90
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia is quietly sapping the strength of Ukraine, NATO and the EU, and Israel is reaping the harvest from sowing discontent in the region for decades. I think it's the other way around, Ukraine is decimating Russias fighting strength, theres no other real way to explain Russias reactivation of T62 tanks and its frankentechnicals that it has been making from any spare gun it can find and a MTLB.

Nonsense. Ukraine ceased to exist as an independent entity quite some time ago. It 's hanging on only because NATO and EU are propping it up. As soon as the USA finds a new thing, and the EU/NATO realise they have been played, then Ukraine will be done.

Can you expand on your position that this war is sapping strength from NATO? I won't comment on the EU because I am much less knowledgeable on their involvement. From what I can see of NATO actions, it doesn't seem like we are over-extending at all. We have given money and old weapons (two things of which we're in no short supply), but I don't see how that equates to sapping our strength. No NATO troops have been killed, no modern NATO weapons have been lost, and the amount of money we've spent is negligable comapred to the money going into the war machine every year already. In contrast, I see Russian men being killed, russian weapons being lost, and russian money being poured into this war; resulting in negligable gains in their positions each time.
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