Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's scam in that you're being enticed to mislead yourself. That doesn't even make sense. > Most children understand that "monopoly money" isn't real "legal tender" --- but you don't? No one is claiming that cryptocurrencies are legal tender (outside of countries like El Salvador that made it so)
That doesn't even make sense. Neither does surrendering "legal tender" for money that is not.
Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
161–170 of 175 posts
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Because if it goes to five when I need to use it for groceries, I’m in a bit of a pickle. Why? You're out $45. That sucks, but since you're not a Bitcoin speculator who holds all their assets in Bitcoin, you only have to open your phone and exchange something for another $50 worth of Bitcoin so you can use it to buy groceries. Maybe you could use the $50 you made that time your $50 in Bitcoin turned into $100 and t…
So I’m not using it for currency, then? If it’s value can range from $100 to $5, it is unusable as daily currency, and the only reason to hold it is because I’m hoping today is the day it’s $100, and if it’s not, I’m going to use my real currency to buy things. You’ve just made speculation small scale and complicated. And my bread costs 8% more dollars than it did a little while ago. My dollar didn’t lose 92% of its…
> You’ve just made speculation small scale and complicated.
Actually buying investment securities with a $50 cryptocurrency gain was a joke. You could do it in theory but what you're really going to do is not buy anymore Bitcoin until you've spent the $100 worth instead of buying $50 more after you'd spent the original $50. The point is that the volatility generally evens out. It doesn't really matter if you replenish your Bitcoin wallet after 5 days one time and 10 days another if it averages out.
Moreover, the more people use it, the less volatile the price is. It's understandable that people don't immediately use this to buy groceries, but if they use it to buy digital subscriptions or build distributed systems or what have you, the more people use it for those things the less volatility there is. And then at some point people may start using it to buy groceries.
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you can call something early adoption if it's been around for 15 years. The iPhone had been around for about the same amount of time and it's a mature platform. The "it's early" argument is really only peddled by people who seem to have an interest in bitcoin's value increasing.
The temptation for sarcasm here is so high...15 whole years huh? This isn't a JavaScript framework we are talking about here. A secure and reliable financial system has very different properties than a consumer product like an iPhone. You do know the Internet got started in the 1960's, right? And didn't really take off until 30 years later?
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Avon et al are the people at the top of the pyramid. They don't go out of business, they keep running the scam until they get arrested or run out of suckers. And P.T. Barnum said something about the latter. It's the suckers whose "investment" in one of these things goes to zero, which happens all the time. There are cryptocurrencies that go to zero, but there are also government currencies that go to zero. They go to…
Ah, I misunderstood. Touché, that is a fair distinction. It's hard to know how widespread leverage is used in crypto investments. One of the scary things about cryptocurrency investments is the lack of regulation, letting unsophisticated "investors" easily take on ludicrous amounts of risk. It's not uncommon to see 100x leverage offerings at crypto exchanges [1][2][3]. If used, it obviously can result in "investment…
That isn't a scam, it's a gamble. It's the same as going to a brokerage and selling short, or buying a piece of land sight unseen. They are not allowed to lie to you. You are allowed to be an idiot and lose all your money.
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
dollars are somehow "backed" by the military or tax payments. They are backed by law --- they are "legal tender". As such, I'm fairly confident I can pay next month's rent with them. Crypto is backed by --- absolutely nothing. Pretending you can't see the difference here is lying to yourself.
Seems like "backed by law" is just a synonym for the Latin "fiat", "let it be done", as in "the current regime decrees that this particular figment of our collective imagination is their preferred medium of exchange, which can, will, and always has changed throughout history to different socially constructed figments of the collective imagination". Not to say that it's dumb or silly to align yourself with the current…
Yes --- when your "independent" assets have little to no history of success or stability beyond speculation, manipulation and promotion for questionable motives and arguably carries a much greater risk than the one you're looking to hedge against.
Crypto is one of the world's most volatile "assets". The only way it achieved any stability is through largely imaginary ties to fiat using "stable coins".
In other words, avoiding risk by adopting even more doesn't make much sense. "Smart money" doesn't buy into a startup with no real world product or assets in order to avoid risk.
Ask yourself this question --- why hasn't every profit driven bank and corporation offered their own crypto already? They have way more ability to promote it than bitcoin. The only reason they haven't is because they don't see any real advantage in the long run.
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose, but it's just not a very useful number. If you are sending a billion dollars of Bitcoin from one address to another, the transaction fee could be one dollar. No bank in this universe will do that amount for that cheap (and the settlement time would be way more than Bitcoin's 10 minutes). The overall point I'm trying to make is it's hard to compare Bitcoin to our current banking system if you don't really e…
Why do you assume I don't know how Bitcoin works? Because I'm not using sat/byte, which would only confuse the casual reader? My point was that for regular payments that regular people do Bitcoin is simply too expensive for. The average transaction amount is indeed very useful to backup that statement.
Yes, transaction fees are too high for everyday small purchases. The 10 minute transaction/confirmation time is too slow for that too. That's why (just like in our current banking system) layers are being built on top of bitcoin to solve those problems (the lightning network, for example). The trade off is that these fast and cheap transaction layers will have a little less security and longer final settlement times (similar to our current system but actually still way more secure, and also permissionless, free of central control, etc., etc.).
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
The temptation for sarcasm here is so high...15 whole years huh? This isn't a JavaScript framework we are talking about here. A secure and reliable financial system has very different properties than a consumer product like an iPhone. You do know the Internet got started in the 1960's, right? And didn't really take off until 30 years later?
Bitcoin has had plenty of time to see widespread adoption. Its numerous flaws have become apparent and the ecosystem is so infested with scams and get rich quick bullshit. Good luck!
When you start talking about scams and get rich quick schemes are unfairly grouping all of "crypto" with bitcoin. Bitcoin has been used in some of the schemes, but always with some other "coin" and false promises in conjunction with bitcoin. People that have stuck with plain vanilla bitcoin have not been scammed.
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it still exist, with people actually using it? Is that what you were referring to originally?
You said people do what Vitalik says. Ethereum Classic is the prime counter argument that this is not true. It almost flipped Ethereum, split the community, and completely wreaked the price. That's not supposed to happen if everybody follows the supreme leader.
Ethereum is better than the other complete scam coins, it's not a total scam. But it's not really permissionless and decentralized like Bitcoin.
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are talking about settlement times of Bitcoin transactions. Yes, those take 10 minutes at best, or roughly around an hour if you want to be very confident that the funds have settled. Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best. The lightning network on top of Bitcoin gives you credit card speed transaction times, with settlement still happening on the Bitcoin layer in minutes not days.
> Settlement times on dollars is generally 3 days at best. If I do a card payment the merchant knows they'll get the money inside a few seconds. Same if I use cash, or a bank transfer.
Re: Crypto Fooled Us Once. It Will Fool Us Again
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose, but it's just not a very useful number. If you are sending a billion dollars of Bitcoin from one address to another, the transaction fee could be one dollar. No bank in this universe will do that amount for that cheap (and the settlement time would be way more than Bitcoin's 10 minutes). The overall point I'm trying to make is it's hard to compare Bitcoin to our current banking system if you don't really e…
Why do you assume I don't know how Bitcoin works? Because I'm not using sat/byte, which would only confuse the casual reader? My point was that for regular payments that regular people do Bitcoin is simply too expensive for. The average transaction amount is indeed very useful to backup that statement.