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Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

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Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#151

Post by Nextgrid »

lakomen wrote: post #147
Nextgrid wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm guessing they receive a high volume of support requests and are understaffed. No, the reason is that there's no penalty for the behavior you just witnessed, so it's more profitable to stonewall victims in hopes they go away, and only refund when the authority actually forces them to, which only happens in a small percentage of cases where the fraud victim actually escalates their complaint to the relevant autho…

That's what I thought too, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. If that was organized, that would be quite the scandal.

It's organized by incompetence, so that they have plausible deniability. Just that none of that incompetence ever gets addressed like it would if it was around their profit center for example.

Airlines do the same when it comes to compensation claims.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#152

Post by Findecanor »

omnibrain wrote: post #22
andix wrote: post #17

The ÖBB night trains can be awesome, but the quality doesn't seem to be consistent enough yet. There were reports of over 10% of all night trains getting cancelled this summer and replaced with regular trains (with seats, no beds). Some statistics (German, use translate in browser): https://www.derstandard.at/story/3000000182197/sitzen-statt-...

The trouble lies in the old rolling stock. They bought all that from Deutsche Bahn who suddenly stopped all sleeper train services a few years ago. Deutsche Bahn had neglected that segment for years and did not invest into more than the bare maintenance to keep the stock rolling.

Reviews I've seen of these trains they took over have not been kind.

I have travelled with them multiple times some ten+ years ago when they were with DB, and they felt aged then already.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#153

Post by nologic01 »

jdasdf wrote: post #89
nologic01 wrote: post #72

train travel is almost always the most expensive option compared to car, bus or plane alternatives. from a sustainability perspective an insanely lobsided state of affairs, the result of a century long of distorted incentives and policies. what could be more pleasant than being able to criss-cross Europe in night trains that are affordable, comfortable and sustainable? makes sense both for business and tourism. you c…

>what could be more pleasant than being able to criss-cross Europe in night trains that are affordable, comfortable and sustainable? Doing it by plane at a fraction of the time and cost.

Air travel is cheaper in part because it is subsidized [1].

Nothing wrong with optimizing for cost - if all externalities are properly priced. Otherwise its just egotistical behavior (don't mess with my habits) that passes as "common sense".

[1] https://www.transportenvironment.org/challenges/planes/subsi...

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#155

Post by lakomen »

xyzelement wrote: post #146
lakomen wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Climate anxiety" this reads as if you're being defensive about not flying. Weird choice of words.

The first sentence of the story talks about obb introducing these trains as a less poluting alternative. As a customer, that is more or less valuable to you depending on how much you worry about the impact of planes on the environment. I am self identifying as someone for whom that isn't one of the decision criteria. If that was my number one concern then I wouldn't fly. But then I guess I wouldn't travel via any mod…

Ah gotcha

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#156

Post by nologic01 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #124
TomK32 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly commercial aviation fuel is currently tax exempt in the EU while the railroad companies do have to pay taxes for the fuel and energy.

If aviation fuel was taxed at 100%, the ticket prices would only go up 20%. This alone would not make trains significantly more competitive. Generally speaking, though, it doesn’t make sense to compare subsidies and taxes individually. Both planes and trains are already heavily subsidized, and if you removed all subsidies and taxes, I suspect planes would win handily.

> if you removed all subsidies and taxes, I suspect planes would win handily

Until all transport is long-term sustainable in terms of environmental impact the cost calculus is messed up. Check out carbon footprint ranking of different modes [1].

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#157

Post by geysersam »

jakear wrote: post #57
albert180 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's unprofitable. We need to either accept that we need to subsidise these kind of services for climate protection or ban flights inside the European Union

Rather, the answer (as always) is carbon tax.

But the rate can't be flat. Some types of carbon emissions are more important than others. That has to be taken into account, otherwise carbon tax will never be feasible morally or politically.

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#158

Post by nologic01 »

easytiger wrote: post #92
nologic01 wrote: post #72

train travel is almost always the most expensive option compared to car, bus or plane alternatives. from a sustainability perspective an insanely lobsided state of affairs, the result of a century long of distorted incentives and policies. what could be more pleasant than being able to criss-cross Europe in night trains that are affordable, comfortable and sustainable? makes sense both for business and tourism. you c…

[flagged]

Ah. Somebody calling names, with zero conscience and sense of responsibility about their behavior and impact on others. FYI your "agency" ends when your inane and largely arbitrary consumerist habits destroy my living space. Capiche?

Re: Austria rail operator OeBB unveils new night trains

#160

Post by xyzelement »

lakomen wrote: post #155
xyzelement wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first sentence of the story talks about obb introducing these trains as a less poluting alternative. As a customer, that is more or less valuable to you depending on how much you worry about the impact of planes on the environment. I am self identifying as someone for whom that isn't one of the decision criteria. If that was my number one concern then I wouldn't fly. But then I guess I wouldn't travel via any mod…

Ah gotcha

Thank you for prompting me, I realize I didn't articulate this in my first comment.
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