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Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

politico.com

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Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#161

Post by [deleted] »

serial_dev wrote: post #88
ethanbond wrote: post #2

The large and vocal constituency activated against the bill is good evidence that in fact it is not already accounted for under existing civil rights law.

No, it is not. If I propose adding "don't be sneaky little hobbitses" to the MIT license and people don't want to add it, is it evidence that we have sneaky Hobbits infiltrating the software developer community? Or something more serious, people who are against the PATRIOT Act are evidence that we need the laws and they are not patriots, anyway? Is it the level of discourse we want? You take what's in the bill at fac…

[deleted]

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#162

Post by phpisthebest »

ethanbond wrote: post #140
phpisthebest wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>so why the fierce opposition? Because anytime you pass unnecessary laws you open the future up to some judge somewhere, or some prosecutor some where twisting the words to mean something completely different Happens all the time in society and the fact that people believe it is acceptable to simply duplicate laws is very dangerous We need a massive curbing of the number of laws in society as it is, personally in th…

Would make sense if this wasn't being proposed specifically in response to specific real things happening in actual reality today which the law is failing to address.

Well clearly many people disagree that is an actual reality to today, and if it is the problem would be a symptom of a much deeper issue not addressed by the bill at all, and in fact would probably make the root cause worse

That is today we seem to be moving away from the "melting pot" of multiculturalism were we are all one nation made of many, to a salad bowl of multiculturalism where we lose the "one nation" part, and communities are splintering / siloing themselves off from one another inside one geographic bloc

We need the melting pot to return... that is the only way multiculturalism actually works.

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#163

Post by belltaco »

serial_dev wrote: post #150
belltaco wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe we Americans should question whether we should have the arguers, as well as the arguments, in the US in the first place That certainly doesn't sound blanket racist against an ethnicity of 1.5 billion people... Land of free speech indeed.

It may sound like that, but let's assume positive intentions. This person might wanted to point out that the people who argue about the bill (which is certainly not 1.5B people), can't escape from and leave behind their mental prison of casteism, and they import a new form of racism into the US, which is not ideal.

I mean they're openly advocating deporting them for legal free speech, not even a dog whistle. I would imagine a good chunk are US citizens. While not fully understanding all the nuances.

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#164

Post by tpmoney »

catlover76 wrote: post #41
tekla wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do not want to import this shit into the US. They left these systems behind, and making a law codifies the system into law, which is kinda fucked up. I myself have seen discrimination in non obvious ways (not Indian but exact same idea where your birth dictates certain societal ideas about you) , and would be absolutely pissed if anyone made a law that protects against that because discrimination is already pr…

This makes so little sense I can't really tell whether or not this is in good faith. > People do not want to import this shit into the US. You realize people discriminating on this basis are the ones "importing this shit into the US", right? > I REALLY do not want the Govt to literally categorize me into a bucket I do not give a shit about You realize that this law wouldn't involve the government compiling a list of…

>This makes so little sense I can't really tell whether or not this is in good faith.

It makes a degree of sense. Pick some other non standard "trait" for dividing people and imagine that we need laws for all of them for anti discrimination.

Anti-discrimination laws for your astrological sign, for the color of your chi, for the phrenological map of your skull, maybe ones for your INTJ profile, your New Thought energy types, the amount of toxins in your blood, your blood type, the balance of your humors, your aura, your chakras, your graphology.

I'm not sure I would really want a law codifying astrological signs and banning discrimination based on them. Not because I think you should be discriminating based on astrological signs, but because I don't think our government should be giving any serious legal weight or discussion to the concept of astrology at all. If it's a serious enough problem, I'd rather we work on crafting a law that more specifically codifies the few things we do allow discrimination on, than the innumerable things we won't.

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#165

Post by philistine »

praveen9920 wrote: post #33

Very unfortunate. I have heard lot of cases from friends in US about how they are discriminated based on caste and they can’t say anything because of backlash they might face. Unfortunately, Unlike other kind of discrimination, caste based discrimination is hard to prove in courts. And on top of that they have to prove that caste based discrimination is illegal too, making it hard to bring justice.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: the ability for the executive to veto the work of the legislature serves only conservatives and turns any legislative body into a farce.

The California legislature has more in common with the USSR’s legislature than the UK.

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#166

Post by innagadadavida »

TMWNN wrote: post #143
innagadadavida wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe we Americans The tech industry in CA is basically Chinese and Indians. jFYI "You Americans" have no special rights and cannot do anything to disenfranchise. Free speech rights granted by the US constitution doesn't care if you are a citizen or not.

>jFYI "You Americans" have no special rights and cannot do anything to disenfranchise. We Americans can certainly, should we choose to do so, reduce or even eliminate the entry of South Indians or any other nationality/ethnicity. That is not an American peculiarity, but that of any nation to protect its borders as it sees fit. It goes back as far as the concept of the Westphalian state, and really much further than t…

Sure in theory “you Americans” can also storm the Capitol and burn the constitution and the institution - it is all democracy after all. In practice though you just have to bend the knee and work your ass for your paycheck like the rest of us. Your pipe dream is based on racism and while you are hallucinating, the rest of the hard working immigrants are just making their lives better. Just get back to work.

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#167

Post by JambalayaJim »

TMWNN wrote: post #110
serial_dev wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is not. If I propose adding "don't be sneaky little hobbitses" to the MIT license and people don't want to add it, is it evidence that we have sneaky Hobbits infiltrating the software developer community? Or something more serious, people who are against the PATRIOT Act are evidence that we need the laws and they are not patriots, anyway? Is it the level of discourse we want? You take what's in the bill at fac…

>Then, as this gets more and more common, companies stop hiring people from South Asia because they don't want to deal with this. And what is wrong with this solution, compared to the alternative of American companies and the American people being forced to deal with foreign prejudices and beliefs imported into their country? When children get into a fight, adults intervene by separating the combatants and sending th…

Dealing with foreign beliefs and prejudices is part and parcel of having an immigration system. The US, having been built on immigration, has been dealing with these kind of “motherland” conflicts for its entire history. Sometimes these American soil conflicts spill back out onto the motherland countries in a big way, as Cuba, Ireland, and Israel/Palestine can all attest.

If caste-based discrimination is rampant then certainly it should be a bigger part of the screening process for immigrants. You can even refuse entry for immigrants from South Asia entirely - though I suspect this is a massively losing proposition for the US as a whole.

What you cannot do (as you seem to be implying) is wholesale cast out American citizens based on their ethnicity or place of birth. Or at least I would hope not!

I am a Canadian citizen, born in India. I have the exact same rights as any other Canadian - any Canadian telling me “your problems are not Canada’s” would be incorrect, and I would consider them a racist as well. I don’t practice any caste based discrimination. I wouldn’t even know the caste I might have belonged; the caste of anyone I know; or how to determine caste! I would still vote against this bill.

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#168

Post by booleandilemma »

catlover76 wrote: post #136
booleandilemma wrote: post #103

I can think of few things more un-American than the concept of caste. We should not even acknowledge that caste exists any more than bodily humors. All men are created equal.

Whether or not the law is good or bad, this is such a dumb comment. Obviously, the law would not somehow create caste as a legal category, or otherwise confer recognition, legal or otherwise, that there is validity to the concept of "caste". Surely you understand that right? Your comment suggests you think the law is some kind of proclamation that caste is a real thing that exists, but I mean, surely you just can't b…

Please don't call me dumb, that's very rude :)

Re: Newsom vetoes a proposed ban on caste discrimination in California

#170

Post by cscurmudgeon »

TMWNN wrote: post #120
innagadadavida wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't care. I shouldn't care. I shouldn't have to know or care in the first place! Newsom vetoing the bill is on similar grounds - no one should care or talk about cast and certainly it should not be mentioned in any CA bill.

I know. I am going further, and stating that if South Asians are arguing *in the US* about the existence and extent of caste-based discrimination, and it's gotten to the point that a law was proposed and almost enacted, maybe we Americans should question whether we should have the arguers, as well as the arguments, in the US in the first place. I mean, you can say that the South Asian presence in the UK is because of…

You should read more about this.

This bill wasn't proposed by a South Asian impacted by caste. It was done by an Afghan immigrant.

The irony is that she is not doing anything against Sunni-Shia violence/discrimination which is a larger problem in the US [1] and globally.

Where is the protection for short-bearded men and women who don't cover up fully as they are persecuted in Afghanistan?

Won't immigrants to the US from Afghanistan carry these biases over?

The agenda is so clear and moronic and borders on "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

[1] https://time.com/6205521/albuquerque-muslim-murders-shiite-s...

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