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How to compete with Patreon

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Re: How to compete with Patreon

#61

Post by krisoft »

egypturnash wrote: post #29
hknmtt wrote: post #3

I am actually developing a platform to compete with pateon. And the author is quite naive in his complaints. You cannot do business and be anonymous. The tax man would eat you alive. At least outside of USA. You also need a license as sole proprietor or be incorporated as a company in order to make repetitive sales and not one-offs. So again, no anonymity whatsoever. "by works" payment model is illegal. You can recei…

"by works is illegal" I've been using Patreon this way since it launched in 2013, and I am pretty sure they have grown to the point where it is impossible for the only reason they get away with it is that they are too small for anyone to say "hey this is illegal, you have x months to stop doing this before we come down on you". "why would I give API access without being able to monetize it" It is worth noting that Pa…

> I think his musical output has fallen off a lot as "running a system of money pipes" took over his life

Does not appear to be the case? Jack is pumping out music at an insane rate.

If you mean quality wise, that is a lot harder to judge objectively. Subjectively I like his new stuff, and his new band the Scary Pockets is doing well popularity wise.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#62

Post by smeej »

mattdesl wrote: post #41

Crypto could provide a competitive edge to certain features in Patreon (and Bandcamp). - Instead of 4-7% payment processing fees, it can be effectively zero[1] - Instead of 8-12% fees (or 15% in case of Bandcamp), crypto industry standards tend to be in the 0-5% range. It’s not always clear to me as a creator and patron why such a significant amount of value needs to be captured for a digital asset sale. - Users of t…

Even granting that those things do apply, there's another major hurdle for any platform that would try to do this with crypto:

You can't autobill.

Every time you want a payment, you need a signature from the sending wallet. The closest you can get is a smart contract where someone pre-loads a certain amount of money and it trickles out as the months/works roll out, but it will eventually deplete. Then what? Subscription over? Start the nagging emails?

It's not "set and forget" like a credit card where you settle the debt after the creator receives their payment.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#64

Post by Fargren »

hknmtt wrote: post #9
jaggederest wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "by works" payment model is illegal. You can receive donations or have subscriptions or pay per view but you cannot "maybe deliver", "deliver maybe one work, maybe ten". Again, illegal as fuck. How can Patreon allow it then? It's a real, existing thing. If you don't deliver, you don't get paid.

in that case, maybe i did not properly understood how the author describes that model.

I don't know how to write this without sounding snarky, which is not my intention but: maybe if you are intending to build a Patreon competitor, you should look into how this model works.

It's probably not a big source of their profit, and certainly a competitor can live without it. But as both a consumer and creator it's the only model I'm interested in. It really aligns everyone's incentives.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#65

Post by braza »

pjc50 wrote: post #46
braza wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nobody has cracked microtransactions It's hard to agree on this one. Personal anecdote: In 2010's I worked in a micropayments broker linked with all telecom companies. The whole thing was: that NSFW creators used a shared SMS shared code (i.e. a SMS number that receives messages for several creators and the code (for instance HNCODE25) was used to move money to a balance account) and for each of the payments that p…

Under what circumstances can people be banned from PIX?

We do not have the jurisprudence for that, so in principle if a single federal judge establish that you will be banned via your bank blocking your account. If this happens, for sure the Supreme Court will chime in and establish an common understanding and the lower/higher chambers will legislate around it.

Despite of what happen in Brazil politically this is a very serious process that if a judge misjudge that it could open a huge precedent for a lawsuit against the state.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#66

Post by mattdesl »

CRM_CHILD_IDENT wrote: post #60
mattdesl wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Ethereum (an open source network) ultra centralized and without democracy compared to PayPal or VISA which currently account for a large portion of Patreon payments?

Yes, it is the same, you are right. That´s the point - no inch more "power to the poeple" via cryptocoins.

Except these are not at all the same, and most users cannot fork or participate in PayPal/VISA protocols.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#67

Post by mattdesl »

CRM_CHILD_IDENT wrote: post #58
mattdesl wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did address both the OP's 1) pseudonym (anonymity) and 2) by-works, the other two points (patronage and audience relationship + API) are both viable and already very much present in crypto art communities. The real feature of crypto is decentralization, which does not need to mean fraud—in the same way that end-to-end encryption does not only facilitate criminal behaviour.

BTW the platform teia.art you linked is a good example of the anti-decentralization that any kind of "cryptocoin platform" performs. Just another middleman that tries to get between seller/ buyer with zero benefit for both sides, but profit for the middleman. Of course still lying into the face of potential users about "decentralzing things" while trapping them into the platform - what a joke!

Teia is an open source and interoperable platform, basically the opposite of what you are describing. You are welcome to browse the code yourself and make a coherent argument against it.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#68

Post by bennettbackward »

6stringmerc wrote: post #63

Still never got answers how Jack and Pomplamoose got away with the “Beat It” cover video that propelled him upward. Still seems shady. Still will never go near anything endorses or touched by Amanda Palmer.

What did they get away with? Is there some drama around that cover?

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#69

Post by Applejinx »

raincole wrote: post #15
x0x0 wrote: post #5

I think the real answer may be that patreon is, actually, a bad business; and that nobody has cracked microtransactions. Separately, while Patreon's charging changes seem boneheaded, I'd guess at least a 50% chance that they weren't driven by stupidity but rather by a CFO having a come to jesus conversation with the e-team. Driven by the fact that microtransactions run on a credit card are tough. Their giant raises m…

The author starts the article with "take Patreon's lunch money". What lunch? The one VCs fed them? Is Patreon even profitable?

See, this is what immediately turned me off the article.

I don't WANT a payment system that is about beating up other payment systems in the schoolyard and making them cry.

I want a payment system that takes money on my behalf and then pays me with it.

I'll put up with a lot of inefficiency if it's boring and predictable. You're gonna have a heck of a time prying me away from Patreon in favor of your new lunch-money taking payment system with crypto and hookers. If you're leading with 'take their lunch money', I don't trust you.

I don't trust Jack Conte THAT much, but it's sure a lot more than you.

Re: How to compete with Patreon

#70

Post by mattdesl »

smeej wrote: post #62
mattdesl wrote: post #41

Crypto could provide a competitive edge to certain features in Patreon (and Bandcamp). - Instead of 4-7% payment processing fees, it can be effectively zero[1] - Instead of 8-12% fees (or 15% in case of Bandcamp), crypto industry standards tend to be in the 0-5% range. It’s not always clear to me as a creator and patron why such a significant amount of value needs to be captured for a digital asset sale. - Users of t…

Even granting that those things do apply, there's another major hurdle for any platform that would try to do this with crypto: You can't autobill. Every time you want a payment, you need a signature from the sending wallet. The closest you can get is a smart contract where someone pre-loads a certain amount of money and it trickles out as the months/works roll out, but it will eventually deplete. Then what? Subscript…

Agreed, it is limited to active participation. Although this might not be such an issue; a lot of creator payment platforms (Bandcamp, Ko-fi, Kickstarter) depend on active payments, and Patreon’s recent announcements seem to suggest they will lean more heavily on this.
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