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Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

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Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#31

Post by JumpCrisscross »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #24
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> couldn’t we come up with a subsidy with less market distortion? Yes. Universal childcare. Alternatively, payment for children (as a refundable tax credit or e.g. social security payment for one's first N years).

> Universal childcare. Alternatively, payment for children These are the same, just different execution. A slot for your child or children if you want to go to work, a payment if you want to stay at home to provide childcare. The care is universal, the delta being who logistically is providing the care. Edit: Agree with y'all it is both a marketing and execution story.

> are the same, just different execution

Sure. But the branding matters. The former seems to provoke a vitriolic reaction in some people that, if widespread, could tank it in a way that the identical effect under the second's branding doesn't provoke.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#32

Post by chrisbrandow »

steven-xu wrote: post #9

Setting aside the philosophical free market questions, additional government subsidy childcare seems fine. There’s a positive externality of readily available childcare: one adult to many children is more efficient than home care, and parents being able to work generates economic production, taxes, etc. But couldn’t we come up with a subsidy with less market distortion? A specific subsidy to pay for childcare for chi…

While technically a market distortion, it is incredibly well-aligned with the human considerations. The people most likely to need childcare, are in many ways those well situated to be involved with providing childcare.

The early child-rearing years are hard, and trying to work during this time is hard. The incentives to just add some extra childcare to your life is possibly less difficult than lots of options for a lot of people.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#34

Post by mbiondi »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

Universal childcare is low-hanging fruit for America. Unfortunately, there is a vocal section (mostly married men) who want a stay-at-home mom and believe this will, similar to women entering the workforce following the advent of contraception and the civil rights movement, "force" their wives into the workplace.

I've nothing against women in the workplace, but I do think it sucks that in most families both parents are forced to work in order to make ends meet. Universal childcare is the worst of both worlds - you miss out on all those special moments when your children are young and your kids get to be raised by a stranger. Plus the public gets to foot the bill.

I guess it works if you don't want those experiences and are happier working.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#35

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #27
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won't that only help the landlords? How many daycares own their location?

> Won't that only help the landlords? No, estimating tax burdens is more complicated than where it first falls. Depending on how competitive the retail real estate market is in an area, you would expect to find landlords competing for childcare tenants to varying degrees.

So there's a lot of factors that may or may not help encourage childcare facilities. To me it smells of trickle-down for commercial locations.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#36

Post by Ericson2314 »

jstarfish wrote: post #29
Avshalom wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds more like a way to let homeschoolers get out of property tax than it does anything that would lower the cost of childcare for workers.

I don't disagree, but there does exist a network of people who run childcare services for the public out of their homes. I imagine this is who benefits from the amendment.

If this gets us further from a land value tax, it is bad. Simple as.

100% this is disguised handout for home schooling right wing nuts. Property tax is not a significant burden for regular childcare outfits. "Cash poor asset rich" is not a real problem and anyone telling you otherwise it out to swindle you.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#37

Post by kulahan »

steven-xu wrote: post #26
nickff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is universal childcare less market distorting? It seems to me that the larger the subsidy (or tariff for that matter), the more the distortion.

Universal childcare seems to me significantly less distorting than universal childcare for childcare workers. It’s larger subsidy yes but it corrects for an existing distortion (parents pay full price for childcare to raise children who then end up paying taxes to the state), and it does so in a way that it doesn’t break one specific labor market. We do not do parents who aren’t already childcare workers a favor by s…

But the entire childcare market is run on such tight margins that they all require a model of having a waiting list for children, meaning the market is massively underserved by design.

It would seem to me that this is only likely to result in more childcare workers, making it more accessible to all, no?

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#38

Post by ceejayoz »

gadders wrote: post #22

>>One reason was Kentucky had lowered the child-to-teacher ratios in the pandemic to prevent the spread of COVID. Each class had to be smaller. I may have missed it, but did this get reversed?

What pandemic mitigations haven't been reversed at this point?

(Yes, it did, in early 2021: https://www.wlky.com/article/kentucky-child-care-capacity-si...)

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#39

Post by Ericson2314 »

isykt wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> I hope it’s being clawed back on their tax returns.

Yes, this happens automatically. Please. Means testing always translates to a mess. We need to radically simplify all this stuff. Flat benefits and simple taxing is a way.

It doesn't makes sense to look at benefits and taxes in isolation, only the net effect.

Re: Kentucky made child care free for child care workers

#40

Post by mrits »

steven-xu wrote: post #9

Setting aside the philosophical free market questions, additional government subsidy childcare seems fine. There’s a positive externality of readily available childcare: one adult to many children is more efficient than home care, and parents being able to work generates economic production, taxes, etc. But couldn’t we come up with a subsidy with less market distortion? A specific subsidy to pay for childcare for chi…

I'm a bit bias since I don't pay for childcare but I don't have an issue with childcare being expensive as long as the profit is going directly to the workers.

I have a hard time understanding why we don't want talented and ambitious people to raise our children.

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