September was the most anomalously hot month ever • Hacker News Board

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#411

Post by rollcat » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 9:39 AM UTC

Aerroon wrote: post #352

rollcat wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> less dependent on foreign resources is another way of say "reduced global trade" which has been and continues to be a major part of our economy. TBF I'm growing more and more apathetic to this whole "economy" thing. Unbounded growth is what led us to the present problem in the first place. What about we try to optimize for quality of life instead of quantity of made-up number?

> What about we try to optimize for quality of life instead of quantity of made-up number? That's still economic growth. I don't know about you, but I would like there to be treatments for medical issues that aren't curable yet. I would also like to get improvements in life in general like better insulation, better water etc. The sum of all of that improvements is economic growth though.

You're right, but the current system is full of perverse incentives. Sure someone is looking for a cure to the cancer, but for every scientist/researcher there is a thousand cars each carrying a single person to work an office job they could've done from home, a hundred bitcoin mining rigs running off coal, a dozen private jets, etc.

Just look at the mean salary in US vs western EU, but compare healthcare, access to education, public transport. EU still has a very long way to go, but I think it's proof enough that "line go up" is very different from (even if correlated to) actual quality of life.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#412

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 10:55 AM UTC

aydyn wrote: post #381

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can go and take a stroll in a park. There is more beauty in that than jostling in a crowd of tourists in front of the Mona Lisa.

Again, the vast majority of people disagree with you. Stop pushing your values onto others.

I don't care what majority of people agree with. If majority of people don't change their ways, we all gonna die.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#413

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:23 PM UTC

noknownsender wrote: post #226

nologic01 wrote: post #50

> Two main factors are at play in driving temperatures to such extremes: their inexorable increase from burning fossil fuels and an El Niño event that is shaping up to be a strong one. It would be quite educational to attribute in more detail the impact of these two factors. The degree of "El Nino" influence is presumably known, and if its strength is not related with global warming in complicated and unknown ways it…

If there is a potion of the population that is "sitting on the fence about climate change", it is highly unlikely that they "can be convinced by a clear and well founded explanation of what is happening" Anybody capable of that, would either no longer be sitting on the fence, or are highly unlikely to be reading this article. Also, the basic premise of your comment assumes that the effects on the monthly temperature…

Or maybe they don't trust people like you, who can say things with so much confidence despite the scientific consensus not being _nearly_ as clear as you claim.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#414

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:24 PM UTC

nologic01 wrote: post #268

noknownsender wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a potion of the population that is "sitting on the fence about climate change", it is highly unlikely that they "can be convinced by a clear and well founded explanation of what is happening" Anybody capable of that, would either no longer be sitting on the fence, or are highly unlikely to be reading this article. Also, the basic premise of your comment assumes that the effects on the monthly temperature…

There are people who are "in principle" accepting climate change but skeptical about the urgency and magnitude of adaptation that is required. This includes critical segments of the business and political worlds who weigh any action against their vested interests. These people will never panic. But they may plot a "changing of stripes" strategy if the signals from experts and society are strong and persistent. This i…

It's not beside the point, it IS the point.

There's too much currently unknown for any honest person to speak with the confidence the other poster is and that makes many people (myself included) distrustful.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#415

Post by moffkalast » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #129

DanHulton wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are delusional. That could happen in a single event, let alone "ever" as your comment is implying.

In fact, I would go even further and predict that all cause mortality will be under baseline for countries most affected by climate change in the next 10 years vs 10 years prior, and life expectancy will go up. I absolutely believe that climate change is happening, I think tech and other improvements will outpace the damage it does. I'm very serious about betting on this.

It's a good bet, because either you're right or it won't matter.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#416

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #361

sojournerc wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panic is never rational - it's an emotion. Giving into it can cloud what action should be taken, or, often, cause actions that make the situation worse.

Something not being `rational` is not an argument against it. Rationality is a subjective matter, not objective.

The poster claimed panicing is rational, the other poster responded (correctly) that it's an emotion and therefore is not, definitionally, rational.

reasonable != rational.

But here's the thing.

If your house is on fire, do you want a firefighter who is panicing or one who isn't? panicing may be reasonable, but that doesn't make it the best course of action.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#417

Post by spenczar5 » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:36 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #367

spenczar5 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proposal was to crank up the price of oil directly. You couldnt price-curve your way past a $1,000 per CO2 ton tax. While plastic does not drive oil production, it is definitely the case that oil prices determine plastic production costs. Recycling can absorb much of that, but medical plastics cannot be made through recycling today.

$1000/ton is $1/kg. Most medical plastic items are tens of grams - so 1 cent. Considering the price of medical devices in the US, there is certainly room for a few extra cents.

You are taxing co2, not oil. A barrel of oil is about 400kg of carbon. That makes the price go up by at least $400 per barrel. It’s at about $80 right now. So the cost of materials for petroleum prodycts would go up by something like 6x.

In the US, this cost will get absorbed. But if you are in subsaharan Africa, 6x more expensive IV tubes and syringes is extremely consequential.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#418

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #366

JoshuaDavid wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still composure, and the appropriate course of action is still to evaluate your options and choose the best one, even if that's the best option out of a list of bad options. Unless you think that panic will induce the driver to stop accelerating, I suppose. Though I think the closer analogy would be "you're a passenger in a car with a brick on the accelerator and no driver", because I don't think there's any person o…

If doom is certain, then what does your composure or anything else matter?

your chances of survival increase if you're not panicking.

This is well understood by everyone and only needs to be said because you feel the need to ask 20 questions in an attempt to imply there's a fault to the thinking (because you can't outright say it or the jig would be up).

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#419

Post by mcculley » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 1:59 PM UTC

zemvpferreira wrote: post #42

badcppdev wrote: post #32

https://www.defense.gov/News/Feature-Stories/story/Article/2... I think the Overton window needs to shift soon to include the idea that widespread government intervention will be required to avoid 800 million climate refugees

We do need to urgently discuss the role of the first world towards massive third world calamities. I'm a global warming believer, but I'm starting to question whether the planet warming won't actually be posivite for a lot of first world economies. More solar power, less money spent on heating, less dependent on foreign resources etc etc etc. Meanwhile, poor countries will take the brunt of the disasters due to geogr…

More solar power?

Global warming does not mean we get more solar power. It means we trap more of the Sun's energy in our atmosphere. Solar panels are not going to be getting more light.

Re: September was the most anomalously hot month ever

#420

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 06, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #416

aaomidi wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something not being `rational` is not an argument against it. Rationality is a subjective matter, not objective.

The poster claimed panicing is rational, the other poster responded (correctly) that it's an emotion and therefore is not, definitionally, rational. reasonable != rational. But here's the thing. If your house is on fire, do you want a firefighter who is panicing or one who isn't? panicing may be reasonable, but that doesn't make it the best course of action.

[deleted]