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Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

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Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#101

I once worked for a startup that was trying to stream ads over bluetooth using microwavable foods. It _worked_, but ultimately used too much bandwidth to be practical at the resolutions advertisers wanted.

That sounds amazing. Are there more details like what sort of ads even?

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#102
post #97

There's about 1000 watts of RF inside the microwave, it has to be attenuated to less than a few microwatts on the outside to avoid congestion, as they use the same frequency band. I'm amazed WiFi or Bluetooth ever works at all. 8) You can thank Hedy Lamar for that. Try cleaning the mating surfaces around the door thoroughly. If that doesn't work, consider replacing the microwave or relocating the speaker.

> Try cleaning the mating surfaces around the door thoroughly. (I'm obviously not an electrical engineer, given this is 10x stuff) If we're talking a 2.45 GHz microwave signal, that's a 12.2 cm wavelength. But I thought for shielding you only needed to have gaps of Is there some fractional-wavelength propagation, or is my understanding of EM shielding off-base? How are microwaves noisy? E.g. https://physics.stackexch…

> Is there some fractional-wavelength propagation?

"Propagation" is probably not the right word, but fractional wavelengths can "leak" some amount of field.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evanescent_field

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#103

I once worked for a startup that was trying to stream ads over bluetooth using microwavable foods. It _worked_, but ultimately used too much bandwidth to be practical at the resolutions advertisers wanted.

Can you explain a bit more how this worked? The food item harvested energy from the microwave, and modulated the leaked microwaves/transmitted its own signal to hijack nearby bluetooth audio devices to play audio ads?

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#104

My neighbors have something crazy emanating from their house. None of my Bluetooth devices, from Bose to Plantronic to new AirPods Pro, survive signal connectivity when I walk past their house. The connection gets very disrupted and the devices have trouble reconnecting. So I have to leave everything off when I go for a run and not connect headphones until I make it to the end of the street. It’s weird.

could be a continuously recording wireless camera that likes to hog spectrum

I live in deep suburban/exurbs and this feels quite likely, given the neighborhood. Everyone’s wired for cameras and Amazon Key, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#105
post #79

Bluetooth and WiFi both borrow their spectrum from microwave ovens. It's typical and expected that microwave ovens will cause some interference with other users of the 2.4GHz ISM band that are very nearby. Microwaves operate at very high power levels and are required to be shielded for human safety, but the permissible leakage power is relatively high compared to typical WiFi and Bluetooth devices---there's a simple…

The international allocation of 2.4GHz spectrum for microwaves happened at lobbying of USA, but is global - and exists in order for airplane galleys to be equipped with microwave heaters and be allowed to travel internationally.

it's kind of funny because water resonates in that band, international consensus or not?

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#106

There's a particular spot on a local highway that interrupts my wireless CarPlay connection if I spend too long in it (eg when traffic is slow). It's right next to an exit with a bunch of buildings (including a hospital) so I'm sure there is some massive emitter in one of those buildings. I'm still at a loss about what could cause that kind of interference inside a major city and still be legal.

MRI?

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#107
The 2.4GHz spectrum is shared between Bluetooth and WiFi 802.11b/g. A few years ago, I was doing some work using an Ubertooth-One scanner (https://greatscottgadgets.com/ubertoothone/). It was showing the traffic on different channels.

My wife stuck a burrito to warm up in the microwave a room away (30-40 ft). This was with a brand-name model, so presumably properly shielded, etc.

Nope. The entire spectrum just went white with noise on all channels.

Once the microwave cycle ended, it still took a good 15-30 seconds before the airwaves calmed down and went back to normal traffic.

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#108
The microwave became a second class citizen in our kitchen when we got the toaster oven/air fryer combo unit and then was relegated to the garage on top of the fridge. We still use it for popcorn and the occasional hot cocoa and if my coffee gets cold on the weekend I'll wander out there to warm it up. It is almost unneeded.

WiFi is better as a result.

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#109
An interesting construction detail of the cheap modern microwave is that it only operates on one half of the mains electric waveform: microwaves use a single high-voltage diode which acts both as half-wave rectifier and voltage doubler. Thus the magnetron only operates for 10 ms in every 20 ms.

In theory 2.4 GHz communication protocols can easily time their transmissions to fit in the gaps left by the microwave. 50% bandwidth loss but no other effect.

This obviously isn't foolproof in practice, when 2.4 GHz was a thing I remember my WiFi dropping off whenever somebody was nuking some food. But perhaps this might have been a quirk of my Panasonic inverter microwave - which obviously is not the simple standard circuit.

Re: Ask HN: Does your microwave interfere with Bluetooth? Mine does

#110
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on equipment of the plane - the original reasoning for making 2.4GHz the international dumpster spectrum was to install microwaves

But we need to switch off WiFi and Bluetooth

That's because the equipment installed in the galley is going to be tested for operation with the specific aircraft.

Meanwhile phone radios (not WiFi, not Bluetooth) used to have interference issues with various aviation systems (with some 5G bands still causing issues).

Additionally, outside of interference issues from phone systems (and various other non-ISM band radios), the order helps preventing people from doing stupid things with electronics during takeoff and landing, where sudden deceleration can cause things to go awry.

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