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D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

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Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#431

Post by sgjohnson »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #326
pc86 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand the point of this comment. "Credit cards don't need this network, except realistically they do , they just didn't used to." So in some scenario where electricity is unavailable, credit cards will be just as worthless in most cases as apps and gift cards.

You missed the point. Embossed CCs and an imprinter allows you to get your monet at a later date without a problem. Card present or online transactions only prevents you as a seller to make any money when the internet is not working.

It's technically possible to do a card present transaction without the internet working. I haven't seen this happen in practice on ground, but it's actually very common on airplanes, especially on Ryanair. You can pay for everything on-board with a credit card, using a physical terminal, and I can assure you that they don't have satellite internet. They just post the transactions when the plane lands.

But I am somewhat curious as to why nobody in my experience has implemented this on ground. Because if the customer pays with an actual credit card, the risk that the transaction won't go through when the internet comes back up is near-0, provided the card is valid. It is theoretically (and I assume practically too, given that every credit card agreement I've ever signed--and it's a lot of agreements, considering I was churning a lot for airline points--specifically outlined extra fees for "overcharging" your account) possible to overcharge the account this way (i.e. the transaction would still go through even if it'd blast past your credit limit, up to some limit though, probably)

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#432

Post by wkat4242 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

> Also, take a look at a modern European bank note, like we have in the UK. It's a sophisticated technology. It's not like we still have Roman coins that any blacksmith can forge.

No but dollar bills are a lot less advanced. They're also all still the same size and color so it's very hard to differentiate them.

For me the privacy point is the most important though.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#433

Post by ajkjk »

shwaj wrote: post #64
PumpkinSpice wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that position, the government would inevitably try to meddle. Look up Operation Choke Point back in the Obama years, when the government pressured banks to cut off a variety of "undesirable" businesses, such as payday lenders, gun dealers, and so on. Cash serves an important purpose. It is a safety valve in case of such extrajudicial overreach. Yeah, because it's private, it also enables some bad stuff (tax dodgin…

Wandering a bit astray now, but Operation Choke Point 2.0 is currently underway, with the goal of debanking the cryptocurrency industry. Same playbook, different set of undesirable businesses.

Glad to hear it.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#434

Post by olliej »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #97
olliej wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Taking cash costs money as well: more security, more auditing, more cash transport, higher insurance costs, etc Even better, because of forced cash now every business incurs those costs even if the overwhelming majority of their transactions aren’t in cash. The solution to “discrimination against homeless” is not forcing people to take cash, it’s forcing banks to allow homeless people to open bank accounts.

Forcing banks to allow homeless people to open bank accounts only "works" if someone is going to compensate the banks for all the costs associated with those clients. Banks only "work" because they can earn interest on deposits. Homeless people will likely not have enough deposits to make it worth serving them, and they will likely also cost more in support and fraud. If you compensate them too little, banks will do…

So instead we force every business to handle security and insurance related to accepting cash, and we force homeless people to hoard cash and present an enticing target for robbery. Certainly that sounds like a much better solution.

Adding a few rows to a database is not expensive. Hell, even saying you can't charge fees to people with less than $X means not making a profit, not taking a giant loss.

The biggest way to stop "fraud" losses as a bank is to stop automatically allowing overdrafts - this is something that banks only do because their "convenience service" of allowing OD automatically is purely a profit making tool and has nothing to do with convenience is that overwhelming majority of cases. Because those tiny overdraft balances incur massive fees and interest that further cost the victims.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#435

Post by bagels »

cornholio wrote: post #235
bagels wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an element of injustice, the poor and immigrants may not have the same access to banks and credit as others do.

Perhaps we should fix that? I mean, if you can't get banking services, how exactly are you participate in the modern economy? Is it a good idea forcing homeless to deal with cash, when they are the most vulnerable population to drug abuse? How can they safely save to prepare some solution for their situation? So many questions, with "how will you buy your coffee" very low in the order of priority. Electronic money re…

No reason can't we have both cash and full free access to electronic payments.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#436

Post by bazmattaz »

arp242 wrote: post #338
didntcheck wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new "meta" seems to be charging you a tax for not using their loyalty card. Items at Tesco are now significantly more expensive if you don't scan a Clubcard. I suppose it is easier to rotate those than bank cards though

> I suppose it is easier to rotate those than bank cards though When I asked for a Clubcard a few months ago they said they're not giving out any and you have to use the app. Funny enough just after I asked I found one on the floor; I'm using that one. I wouldn't go to Tesco if it wasn't for that, because the price differences are just insane. Before you had the points and whatnot but not the strong discounts (IIRC),…

BP garages now do it too but stupidly they give the card out for free at the till so don’t have to register it if you don’t want to. I feel like I’m sticking it to the man every time I can my anonymous BP card

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#437

Post by extraduder_ire »

rtkwe wrote: post #427
olyjohn wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you can just write it down. You don't have to use the imprint, it's just to help reduce error and make it a bit faster.

There's a secondary point to the carbon copy machine. It proves the person possessed and presented the card which is a level of proof against fraud.

Maybe prove in a legal/compliance sense. It's not too complicated to emboss numbers and letters onto a plastic card.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#438

Post by Guvante »

smohnot wrote: post #48
Guvante wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa gets 1% and the bank gets the rest actually. Which they use to fund cash back programs...

Besides the point but visa actually gets about 0.14%

I pulled up their financials previously and their gross margin was 1%.

Net income is a weird number so I tend to ignore it for this kind of stuff.

Certainly I could have missed the payback style stuff they do but I thought that was included in the number I checked.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#439

Post by Guvante »

akira2501 wrote: post #153
Guvante wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visa gets 1% and the bank gets the rest actually. Which they use to fund cash back programs...

It'd be nice to see what an actually competitive payment processing market would look like. Merchants seem to have no power in this system and I don't see much effort between banks to compete for business, either. These offerings are stagnant and reflect an effort to keep profits artificially high rather than reduce costs and expand on volume.

I think cash discounts and similar models can work to avoid paying the CC fee (now that vendors are allowed to do that)

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#440

Post by extraduder_ire »

black6 wrote: post #359
FredFS456 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case you would often need gold, not cash.

Beans and bullets are better than gold in a SHTF scenario. As are Bic lighters.

I'm partial to clipper lighters, myself. There not as reliable, but they're completely reusable. (gas refill port, removable flint stalk)
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