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D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

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Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#351

Post by lotsofpulp »

tjbiddle wrote: post #118
lotsofpulp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give y…

> You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. Why are you putting the onus on the retailer? Don't assume malice or intent from them. I operate online businesses; so 99% of my sales a…

> Why are you putting the onus on the retailer?

Because it is their choice.

> I'm happy to offer a discount if someone wants to pay via a non-credit card, but I don't raise my prices because of it

This makes no sense to me. As the leader of the business, you have the option to

1) deny all credit cards

2) accept all credit cards, but not offer discount for debit cards

3) accept all credit cards, but offer a discount for debit cards

It is just a business decision, and if you are not choosing 3, one would hope it is because you are earning more profit by going with option 2.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#352

Post by sitkack »

op00to wrote: post #285
didntcheck wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new "meta" seems to be charging you a tax for not using their loyalty card. Items at Tesco are now significantly more expensive if you don't scan a Clubcard. I suppose it is easier to rotate those than bank cards though

Feel free to use my phone number for these if you’re in the US. 212-867-5309. Replace area code with one near your location.

> He gets calls throughout the week, but "mostly on weekends, mostly from people that are drunk."

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#353

Post by semiquaver »

throwaway9870 wrote: post #281
jdietrich wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

Have you never walked into a store and they said you can't use a CC because their reader is down? It is nice to have a few dollars in your pocket for times like that.

It used to be that many companies that accepted credit cards would have a backup carbon copy imprint machine to capture a rubbing of your card alongside your signature as an offline credit card capture mechanism that was reconciled later. They made a satisfying KA-THUNK sound.

Now that many cards no longer use raised numbers I expect such mechanisms wouldn’t work as well.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#354

Post by makeitdouble »

TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #198
makeitdouble wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. But most businesses do. The main issue is there: why should a business be forced by law to accept cash if they absolutely need electricty and cables to work as a business ? It's one step below forcing them to accept hand written checks. Those are also extremely resilient, you just need a pen and paper. But god no I wouldn't want to deal with…

I agree with what you said but I still think cash should be accepted as baseline. Anyone can use cash. That said, I can also understand businesses wanting to do away with it - no need to dealt with it; secure it, count it, deposit it, … etc.

I think looking at cash as baseline made sense a while ago, but in this day and age, we see self employed people running a side business with a card reader and an iPad, and sell paintings on the beach for 3 hours during the weekend.

Asking these people to handle cash instead feels like an undue burden on something that is a very selective side gig. I've seen this a lot in mildly remote locations, and I'd assume they wouldn't be doing it if it was more of a burden, like having to deal with the cash flow.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#355

Post by assimpleaspossi »

mindondrugs wrote: post #298
throwaway9870 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never walked into a store and they said you can't use a CC because their reader is down? It is nice to have a few dollars in your pocket for times like that.

I dont think I have ever encountered this in my adult life honestly. A more common occasion is encountering a business that is cash only (usually small market stalls) and is infinitely more annoying as I have to go and take out a amount of money greater than the product I want to buy, leaving me with a rather annoying amount of loose change.

I used to own several restaurants. This happens far more often than most people may realize.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#356

Post by arp242 »

blackshaw wrote: post #260
runnr_az wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in PHX, I’ve been seeing a lot of businesses with a 2-3% surcharge for cards

Wait, is it common in the US for brick-and-mortar businesses to charge you extra if you pay by card? That doesn't happen in the UK.

We definitely did that in the Netherlands when I worked at a computer store. Credit cards are comparatively rare, and while "2%" doesn't sound much it's a significant fraction of our profit margin.

On a €600 laptop or desktop we'd earn maybe €50 to €75. The €12 is a comparatively large fraction of that. We didn't actually make that much more money from more expensive laptops, so for a €1,000 model we'd typically also earn €50 to €75, and with €20 of that going to Visa... yeah. After factoring in costs for sales, warranty, rant of the store, etc. there is not much left.

On one hand you can say "well, it's only €20", but on the other hand if everyone started paying paying by CC we'd pretty much go bankrupt.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#357

Post by lotsofpulp »

nirvdrum wrote: post #96
lotsofpulp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't love that I also have a 3% tax going to VISA/Mastercard/Amex/... You don’t. The merchant you are buying from is choosing to pay 3% for credit card payments because they believe incentivizing people to pay with credit cards will result in them earning more (via higher prices or higher margin goods) than incentivizing them to pay with debit/cash. If a merchant wanted to, it would be trivial for them to give y…

Target also gives you a 5% discount for using their RedCard. It's your typical store-branded loyalty card. Except, instead of giving you "points" on your purchase you get an upfront discount. Target is unique in that they make this option available through a branded debit card for those that don't want or don't qualify for a credit card. But, it's not a discount specifically for paying with cash. > If a merchant want…

> Discounts get confusing and bump up against weird cases like minimum advertised pricing and potential taxation on the discount.

I have never heard of this. Merchant gets the revenue, merchant pays the tax. If the debit price is $10, then the sales tax is on $10, and if the credit price is $13, then the sales tax is on $13.

> Debit cards can get a bit weird when they function as credit cards. A customer may use a debit card but swipe it as Visa or Mastercard and the fees the merchant pay will be different, setting up a constant source of frustration at the register.

Visa and Mastercard are payment card networks (PCN), they can perform both debit card and credit card transactions. If the card says debit on it, then it will be a debit card transaction with debit card fees. And no one should be swiping anymore, so I do not know what “swiping it as visa or Mastercard” means. It either says Visa or MC on the card, and that’s the PCN it’s going to use.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#358

Post by assimpleaspossi »

jdietrich wrote: post #254
nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

And if a tree falls on you and breaks your leg... We can bring up all kinds of scenarios but his point is a good one.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#359

Post by black6 »

FredFS456 wrote: post #331
mdgrech23 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a true shit hit the fans situation cash is you what you need to bribe the official to get you on the boat/plane/train out of the disaster area.

In that case you would often need gold, not cash.

Beans and bullets are better than gold in a SHTF scenario. As are Bic lighters.

Re: D.C.'s ban on cashless businesses takes effect

#360

Post by readingnews »

jdietrich wrote: post #254
nonrandomstring wrote: post #162

Almost every comment is about politics, choice, privacy, rights, markets and percentages. There's a completely different take; Civic resilience From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. Therefore cash in circulation acts as a buffer that provides economic stability and continuity of operations. Also,…

>From an operational and strategic security POV, cash is a vastly superior technology. It doesn't need electricity, a network of cables, satellites and routers. If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives. Most of the stores I shop at won't actually be able to sell me anything, because none of the products…

>> If the power goes out, I can't get any cash. I don't keep any meaningful amount cash on hand and neither does anyone I know, including my elderly relatives.

Well, that is well on your single data point, here is mine: I live in a bad weather prone area of the united states. I do not know _anyone_ that does _not_ have a meaningful amount of cash in the house for bad weather. Yes, stores here operate with low/no power or communications and use cash. I agree with the poster who noted that it provides a localized resilience. It is your fault, not anyone else's, that you do not have some currency.

Truth be told, I have kept about a weeks worth of spending in cash for decades in the house, just in case, and I have indeed had to use it during long term power outages. Heck, in my area just last week, all of my banks ATMs were down for the entire week due to a software issue after an upgrade (I am not making this up). While I might not have needed cash, it shows the fragility of our systems we rely on.

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