Why You Don't Need A Programmer • Hacker News Board

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#101

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 3:42 PM UTC

lusr wrote: post #98

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've not been a contractor? All you have are hours to sell, and its very similar to selling a pick or shovel. Unethical? If you had a crystal ball that could predict the success of every new idea, sure its unethical to keep it secret. But just because you don't personally think its a good idea- well, it'd be unethical to put your bias in the way of this guy succeeding despite your doubt.

I am an independent contractor. There are two types of contractors, and I have been both: 1. The "warm body" that does indeed just sell hours, usually via a labour broker or development house. They fulfil a "development resource" capacity required on the project, and typically there is already a project structure (plan(s), schedule(s) and management) in place. They are not directly responsible for the deliverables of…

I've been #2, and always explained the risks, options and my estimate of success. I Always recommended the MVP approach. I felt fine about what I did.

Warm bodies don't often choose their projects. Its hard to call them unethical when they're helpless to choose.

And its really hard to 'know full well its not going to be useful', isn't it?

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#102

Post by jasonglaspey » Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 4:48 PM UTC

lusr wrote: post #99

noduerme wrote: post #58

You know, this post had me nodding in agreement up until the last paragraph: "Note: I could easily switch this whole article around to all those programmers that think creating a company is as simple as launching an app. You’re just as stupid, so start asking for someone to help you grow what you’re working on, ask for a co-Founder." No. Frankly, we're not just as stupid. It's not as if just because marketers can't f…

Let's put it this way. We've all heard of the lone programmer who built something entirely alone and made a million bucks from it. We've never heard of the lone businessman whose idea grew legs and programmed itself to make the guy a million bucks :)

Actually, that's not true at all. I personally am a non-programmer, who've hired people to write my code for me, and built a successful company that now employs many people. I wish I had a technical co-founder, for all the reasons mentioned in this article, but most importantly, that technical solutions would be solved by someone invested in the company and from their domain of knowledge. As it is, I have to come up with solutions and ask my for-hire freelance developer to code it for me. It's been successful, but it could be so much more.

But, this in no way means that a non-programmer can't go it alone. I have, and am now doing it. And in the case of the lone programmer building something entirely alone and making a million dollars, what's to say he wouldn't have made $4 million dollars had he a non-technical co-founder?

I think your line of reasoning is equally as incorrect as you're implying the OP's was.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#103

Post by jasonglaspey » Fri, Mar 30, 2012, 4:53 PM UTC

ryanhuff wrote: post #73

bendingoutward wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have another possible explanation for that first question, and I am making the assumption that I'm not the only person that has had to work on not feeling this way: Even though we really shouldn't feel this way, a lot of us developer sorts wrestle with the idea that we're the only ones ever really working, specifically in the pure development phase of a project. Granted, I'm sure everybody feels that way at least o…

Already said (far) below in this post, but the work on the part of the technical team to produce an MVP is often front-loaded, which means that the technical person (team) assumes most of the initial execution risk. Equity distribution should recognize the assumed risk. If the technical person does not execute on the MVP, the idea guy mostly out only lost time-to-market. On the other hand, if the technical person del…

If you have an "idea" person, you're screwed. You need a product person. I don't know how to code, but I can help with wireframes, customer interviews, feedback, marketing plans, pricing strategies, partnership opportunities, etc. The very idea of an "Idea Person" needs to go away and people need to be accountable to providing value. And you don't need an MVP for the Product Person to start working. And I use that term very loosely. Because if they aren't building the product, they should be supporting/defining/selling it.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#104

Post by lusr » Sat, Mar 31, 2012, 6:36 AM UTC

jasonglaspey wrote: post #102

lusr wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it this way. We've all heard of the lone programmer who built something entirely alone and made a million bucks from it. We've never heard of the lone businessman whose idea grew legs and programmed itself to make the guy a million bucks :)

Actually, that's not true at all. I personally am a non-programmer, who've hired people to write my code for me, and built a successful company that now employs many people. I wish I had a technical co-founder, for all the reasons mentioned in this article, but most importantly, that technical solutions would be solved by someone invested in the company and from their domain of knowledge. As it is, I have to come up…

The only point I'm making is that a non-programmer has to hire someone to do the work or learn how to do it themselves (and thereby become a programmer).

In my experience the latter is a hell of a lot more rare than the programmer learning business skills. Consequently it's far more likely to see a programmer developing a successful business solo than a non-programmer developing a successful business solo, so in my opinion you can't just flip the argument around and say it works both ways.

Note I'm not suggesting that a co-founder isn't important or valuable, simply that the argument cannot be flipped around; I'm personally looking at recruiting an old friend once my product reaches MVP because a co-founder is important for some products.

Re: Why You Don't Need A Programmer

#105

Post by JVIDEL » Tue, Apr 10, 2012, 10:18 AM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #84

JVIDEL wrote: post #40

I get the point, but there's another side to this: 9 out of 10 of all startups out there are a business method, they don't need 10x engineers to build new technologies, and what they want can be done by a freelancer using a CMS and some elbow grease.

A freelancer capable of "CMS and some elbow grease" has a few attractive options right now, including building "CMS and some elbow grease" for clueful clients who will compare his invoices to the change in the bottom line and pay accordingly, or taking "CMS and some elbow grease" and getting seed funding for it, or going to one of the numerous companies selling "CMS and some elbow grease" who are desperate for engine…

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