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"You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

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Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#41

Post by kjkjadksj »

ineptech wrote: post #19
HDThoreaun wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt oral examinations come back in general. The undergrad model relys on massive classes, I don’t see how you can do oral exams in those 300 person classes without massive cheating as the first students tell everyone else what to expect.

Is there any value to those lectures, nowadays? I can see a PhD lecture on the fundamentals of virtually any academic topic, for free and at my leisure, on youtube and similar sites. Waking up at 8am to attend an in-person Geology 117 lecture with 300 other freshmen is probably as outdated as a fax machine. Perhaps the next step is, education that isn't based on personal instruction isn't rare enough to be worth payi…

The value of lecture is to see what you are expected to know for the exam. Khan academy isn’t necessarily covering the same things in the same order or level of detail as your professor.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#42

Post by sdfghswe »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #32
sdfghswe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not useless. Hopefully it will remind people (those with an attitude better than yours) that it's all within you to create the change you want.

> it's all within you to create the change you want. No it most certainly is not.

Of course it is. For example, you can make it a game: how can you write in a way that could never be confused with AI? As a bonus, this is almost guaranteed to mean that you'll have a unique style.

Writers have been putting challenges to themselves since writing has existed. Minimize number of words, write without using certain letters, etc. It's fun.

This person (furry?) just chooses to give up at the slightest obstacle.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#43

Post by btilly »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #13
nsxwolf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use ChatGPT to write and administer 300 personalized oral exams.

The issue with different exams for each students is that it’s next to impossible to make them equally difficult which ruins the curve.

The suggestion was personalized, not different.

ChatGPT could have the exact same set of questions to ask. All students are independently taking the same exam at the same time, responding conversationally. ChatGPT asks all of them the same question, and then probes based on weaknesses in the responses. Grades the answer to that question, then moves on to the next.

Everyone got equal questions. Is there going to be inconsistency in how minor wording trips different followups? Sure. But it isn't clear that this randomness is worse than the subjective differences in how humans grade an essay response to a question.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#44

Post by SoftTalker »

RandomLensman wrote: post #31
gustavus wrote: post #3

AI Detection services are the oiliest of snake oils. Seems like education is going to need to change drastically in the next few years. Maybe we'll go all the way back to oral examinations again.

Wouldn't just things were people sit in a room without or limited tools to write the exam work, too?

Yep the old "blue book" exams I had to sit. You get the exam questions on a piece of paoer, and a small booklet of blank paper in which to write your answers. Called a "blue book" because the cover sheet on the booklet was a sky blue color.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#45

Post by analog31 »

Miraste wrote: post #21
_yb2s wrote: post #8

I would sue the teacher and school if this happened to me… total BS. Also plagarism and having other people do your work, or even take exams for you is as old as time. How is AI any different? Some trust is in order here. The students are the ones paying to be educated, if they cheat they are only cheating themselves anyways.

>if they cheat they are only cheating themselves anyways. I've heard people say this a lot. It's a very old-school liberal arts perspective that doesn't fit with the modern world. In practice, for most students, education is a third-place benefit of university behind 1. the certificate and 2. networking.

If students believe that these are their only options, they are either tragically misled, or misleading themselves.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#46

Post by jetrink »

linusha wrote: post #5

Has anyone field-tested strategies to fighting allegations like this and would like to share them? Something I remember from a previous discussion around this topic was writing everything in e.g., Google Docs, where there are captured versions every few seconds. The idea being that the version log shows that one did not copy-and-paste larger chunks of the text.

I bet students would start to print out the plagiarized essays and retype them. If the plagiarists made an effort to make minor changes and rearrange things as they went, no screen recorder or edit history could distinguish it from normal essay writing.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#47

Post by onemoresoop »

fzzzy wrote: post #39
booleandilemma wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The students are the ones paying to be educated, if they cheat they are only cheating themselves anyways. The problem is the cheater will then enter into society and tell people "I'm a graduate of $prestigious_university". At that point they are cheating society. Would you want to work with people who cheated? Would you want your doctor to be someone who cheated?

Doesn't this already happen all the time?

Yes it does but it could be worse. Right now not everyone does this, some students do their work honestly but they may be forced to compete and use AI. It's quite a lose lose situation if you ask me.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#48

Post by cooper_ganglia »

mdorazio wrote: post #37
ineptech wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any value to those lectures, nowadays? I can see a PhD lecture on the fundamentals of virtually any academic topic, for free and at my leisure, on youtube and similar sites. Waking up at 8am to attend an in-person Geology 117 lecture with 300 other freshmen is probably as outdated as a fax machine. Perhaps the next step is, education that isn't based on personal instruction isn't rare enough to be worth payi…

The value is the degree you get at the end of your coursework.

Ah, I see, so no value then.

Re: "You have a 27% 'AI' issue in here"

#49

Post by seabass-labrax »

giarc wrote: post #18

If you submit a word document, is there some way to detect if the words were typed out, how long the document was open etc? Basically trying to detect if the student pasted the text? Obviously students would get around this simply by typing it out word for word, but could work here.

No, there's no mechanism in the Word file format itself to store this information. There's the file system metadata (Created/Accessed/Modified time) which tells you for how long the file was open before being saved. However, file system metadata is likely to be lost when you submit the document.

Ultimately, you could not prevent this timer from being spoofed unless you installed rootkits on the students' computers, and unfortunately (for the security and privacy of students) rootkits are what is often used.

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