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Career Advice (2013)

moxie.org

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Re: Career Advice (2013)

#21

Post by Atrine »

kstenerud wrote: post #11

No. What the experiment showed is that you can be TEMPORARILY coerced into certain behaviors in abusive environments (especially by authority figures - as was exemplified in the Milgram experiment), but it won't change who you actually are. The SPE is really a study in toxic workplaces and abusive relationships. I really wish people would stop quoting the SPE without researching what actually happened and why (and th…

This isn't what I took away from it. It's basically your environment really dictates a lot of who you are and what you become. From my experience, this is absolutely the case.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#22

Post by kstenerud »

Atrine wrote: post #21
kstenerud wrote: post #11

No. What the experiment showed is that you can be TEMPORARILY coerced into certain behaviors in abusive environments (especially by authority figures - as was exemplified in the Milgram experiment), but it won't change who you actually are. The SPE is really a study in toxic workplaces and abusive relationships. I really wish people would stop quoting the SPE without researching what actually happened and why (and th…

This isn't what I took away from it. It's basically your environment really dictates a lot of who you are and what you become. From my experience, this is absolutely the case.

Your environment during your early formative years, yes. By the time you're in your mid-late teens, your moral reasoning is already pretty much solidified (and really it's more about clan loyalty than morality at that point - although we often conflate the two when it comes to inter-clan conflict).

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#23

Post by tayo42 »

synergy20 wrote: post #17

do whatever to make money first, use that money to do what you love. 'follow your dream' is too risky for most of us and might be misleading for most young people in my opinion. make a living first, and never forget your dream in the process

Cal Newport has a whole book about this. So good they can't ignore you. The idea is what you pointed out, and you'll be happier if you just find something to be good at. There's more nuance in the book

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#24

Post by imchillyb »

Personality defines, shapes, and limits personal choice.

Those choices are further defined, shaped, and limited by experiences.

Companies, organizations, groups and people further refine a personality.

Our choices are arrayed by self, formed by both experience and circumstance and then refined by contact with others.

We become our work because our personality led us to that original choice. Life then shaped that choice. And, finally, coworkers refine us.

We’re molded by this process, fitting ourselves into the form with extreme prejudice.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#25

Post by sssilver »

Loved the piece, but to be frank at the time when I picked software engineering as a career, most older software engineers had had extremely different life trajectories than we do nowadays.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#27

Post by caesil »

foobarqux wrote: post #20
climatekid wrote: post #3

The Stanford prison experiments are pretty well debunked at this point

Were they debunked? I thought that they only had some methodological mistake which made them inconclusive.

I think the main problem is they weren't really "experiments" in the sense of proving anything meaningful, and serious attempts to do so did not replicate.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#28

Post by hiAndrewQuinn »

Pretty good combined life+career advice I heard a long time ago and followed: If you're going to move countries, the best time to do it is right after college.

Starting from scratch in an entirely new country, with no connections, no professional ability to speak the native language, and rapidly dwindling cash reserves, was one of the scariest and most thrilling things I've ever done in my life. I recommend it to no one, because if you're crazy or motivated enough to actually do it, no man's recommendation for or against it is going to stop you. You will become some kind of minor force of nature for a while and you will look back on that time years later and think "I had no idea I could be that hardcore."

Sadly this is necessarily the opposite of most of Moxie's sentiments. "Throw yourself into the toughest situations you can find" is shared between us, but Moxie recs doing so amidst friends and comrades, while I merely remind you can hurl yourself into the ravine to learn to fly.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#30

Post by jppope »

miguelazo wrote: post #7
climatekid wrote: post #3

The Stanford prison experiments are pretty well debunked at this point

True, but the larger point stands: your job has a huge influence on who you become. And the organization's mission and culture also will impact your identity. I have seen a lot of former colleagues make a lot of gross compromises for career advancement over the years. People who wanted to make a positive difference in the world who end up working for weapons manufacturers and the intelligence agency cutouts that crea…

Strong disagree. I am reminded of the quote: "If you don't have a plan of your own you'll become part of someone else's plan." Your job has as much of an influence on who you become as you let it have... the contention that you are your job really shows nothing more than a lack of ambition.
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