Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Career Advice (2013)

moxie.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 178 posts

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#11

Post by kstenerud »

No. What the experiment showed is that you can be TEMPORARILY coerced into certain behaviors in abusive environments (especially by authority figures - as was exemplified in the Milgram experiment), but it won't change who you actually are.

The SPE is really a study in toxic workplaces and abusive relationships.

I really wish people would stop quoting the SPE without researching what actually happened and why (and the fact that it was tainted due to Zimbardo's direct involvement and direction in order to get the results he wanted).

Don't worry: You are NOT your job, and your job isn't going to change you forever. This is just a scare piece.

The only thing you should keep in mind is: If it FEELS wrong to you, go with your gut, because sticking around will be traumatic.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#12

Post by mberning »

It is career advice. Whether it is pretty good is debatable. To suggest that you look at people slightly ahead of you and use that as some kind of magic mirror is just so tragically flawed.

First, it supposes that the you of now, inexperienced as you are, can properly evaluate not only what is going on in these older coworkers lives, but that you will also properly appreciate how your own tastes will change between now and then.

Secondly, you are looking at pure survivorship bias. You aren't going to see the folks that did a 5 year turn doing development and then found some other direction to take their career in. If you are a new hire and look at the 50 year old dev on the team and assume your career might go the same you are taking a very narrow vision of the future.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#13

Post by monero-xmr »

My advice:

- If you don't come from money, and your personality desires security and safety, don't do risky stuff like wasting your 20's hitchhiking and being a ski bum. You should get skills and a career. I came from lower-middle class and have always had the nagging fear of being destitute. I am so much happier that I worked hard in my 20s (80 hours a week hard) so my 30s and 40s were more comfortable.

- Your habits chart your trajectory. If you start working out 3x a week, you will continue doing this and be physically fit. If you drink alcohol 3x a week, you will continue to do this and become wrinkled and grumpy. If you get fired from a job 3x a year, you will continue to have this happen, no matter what your excuse is about why it isn't your fault you got fired. Try and work on good habits.

- You are the company you keep. Cut out negative people who always are complaining and blaming others. Focus on wholesome, happy, well-rounded, good people who have goals that align with yours.

- Your best advocate is yourself. How often do you go out of your way to advocate for other individuals? Don't be surprised when no one is putting in the extra effort to help you. Don't be a victim - your future is in your hands - don't blame others or society for your own failings.

- Family, friends, health, purpose are all that truly matter.

- No matter what your predicament is, someone has it worse, and someone has it better. You can always be valuable to society. Don't let your disabilities and frailties stop you from finding a purpose and way to benefit society.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#14

Post by throwaway_75369 »

Should be labelled (2013).

Would be nice if I didn't have to say that; in so many ways the bloom is off the rose of my (admittedly high paying) corporate job. I even recently reunited with some old friends who chose a more independent career path, and was jealous and nostalgic- they're definitely working far closer to their passions with more freedom than I've felt in a decade. But man, what a decade since 2013.

I would be foolish to dismiss that I had stable employment through Covid, and I still have a paycheck through the current economic turmoil. I also have my corporate health insurance, which covers my stupidly expensive regular medication which I had no idea I would need in those nostalgic days when these friends chose their alternative careers (I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease in 2015, now in remission thanks to the meds)

So I agree with the sentiment that it's dangerous (especially to your soul) to just blindly conform and follow the money, but it's not always unjustified. In my case it was at least a little bit justified, since my parents were more or less broke and I didn't have a safety net.

I do wish I had hedged my bets better and been less of a workaholic, of course. Would be nice to be married now.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#15

Post by batguano »

whiddershins wrote: post #10

I didn’t read the whole article because I stumbled on the Stanford Prison Experiment part. As far as I can tell this experiment was largely debunked, or at best widely questioned and not reproducible. It’s one of those stories that lives on because it’s simultaneously so implausible yet seems to say something believable about human nature. But I suspect it was between 90 and 100% b.s.

Agree 100%. First of all, this is much more of an “anecdote” or “dinner theater” than an “experiment.“

But even more so, when you take a bunch of people and _tell them to play these roles_, why are surprised when they _play the stereotype of those roles?_

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#16

Post by arduanika »

whiddershins wrote: post #10

I didn’t read the whole article because I stumbled on the Stanford Prison Experiment part. As far as I can tell this experiment was largely debunked, or at best widely questioned and not reproducible. It’s one of those stories that lives on because it’s simultaneously so implausible yet seems to say something believable about human nature. But I suspect it was between 90 and 100% b.s.

That's totally fine. You're allowed to have your own brown M&Ms. There's a lot of thinkpieces out there, and you need some means of deciding which to read. Citing a debunked experiment w/o disclaimer is a totally reasonable criteria for you to close one of those hundred tabs.

But FWIW, I found the rest of the article pretty good.

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#17

Post by synergy20 »

do whatever to make money first, use that money to do what you love.

'follow your dream' is too risky for most of us and might be misleading for most young people in my opinion.

make a living first, and never forget your dream in the process

Re: Career Advice (2013)

#18

Post by foobarqux »

You can't apply the rule "look at the future versions of the people who make this choice" to criticize office drones and then not do the same to "Alaskan hitchhikers". It's perfectly plausible that most of those people's life outcomes are worse than the office drone, bad as that is. Worse, you probably only get to meet the "best" of the Alaskan hitchhikers, not a representative sample, many of which are probably in an invisible underclass.
Post reply on HN