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Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

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Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#231

Post by monero-xmr »

RajT88 wrote: post #222
monero-xmr wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s fine - let’s codify it then. The law says you have to have that situation, or you can’t come to the US. I’d support it.

Legal work/family visa holders already have this check: https://www.usa.gov/visas Are you suggesting changes to the visitor visas? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-... What you propose doesn't make sense for visitor visas. What exactly are you suggesting, and what problem do you think it is going to solve? Furthermore, if you accept that it's not really that much of a problem and a "Trust b…

The problem is we have hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants streaming across the border with no plan, so they sleep in shelters and on the street in NYC. We can’t kick them out because they have the right to see a judge which often takes over 6 months. Who will feed and clothe and shelter and care for them? Taxpayers, which is why NYC is begging for a federal bailout.

The legal immigration system should be reformed and made easier. But the illegal system we have is a joke and disaster.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#232

Post by jncfhnb »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #225
jncfhnb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably a pretty smart idea. The “ideal tax” is probably a wealth indexed income tax. We don’t like the idea of just taxing wealth because you have it. We do tax income but it’s hard to scale it in a way that people perceive as fair. What we want is to make it harder for the rich to get richer without making it harder for the poor to get rich. That is, if you’re a billionaire, every dollar is taxed at 99 cents.…

You seem to be either assuming that the rich are making large numbers of transactions. Consider Bill Gates and Warren Buffet as counterexamples. They're mainly holding stock and watching it go up. I mean, a 0.1% tax on financial transactions would kill day trading, and I'm not sure anything would be lost. But if your goal is to tax the rich, then tax the rich , not financial transactions.

It doesn’t really matter if someone becomes passively wealthy in a liquid form they don’t access. So long as you catch edge cases like collateralizing those shares for debt it’s still fine. They don’t need to make a lot of trades either.

Taxing the rich is incredibly hard because first you need to quantify how rich everyone is.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#233

Post by jncfhnb »

whatshisface wrote: post #227
jncfhnb wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Perhaps you’re not familiar with “economic rent”?

It's not clear to me that rent of any sort of metaphorical capacity involves a larger number of transactions per dollar than anything else. All I can see it accomplishing is getting rid of high frequency trading and to a lesser extent day trading... Neither of which are pastimes of rich people but rather are middle class jobs of questionable yet arguable value.

Metaphorical?

You’re asserting the volume is key here but it’s not really.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#234

Post by krapp »

s17n wrote: post #105

As others in the thread have noted, there are two separeate issues here: 1. Young people should be able to get a quality education regardless of their families' financial situation. 2. Everyone should have an equal shot at attaining positions of power in society (not so much for their own good, since almost nobody is going to attain these positions anyway it's a small benefit relative to the total population, as for…

The thing is, Americans by and large don't really believe either of those points. At least not in enough numbers to push policy.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#235

Post by dbrueck »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #210
dbrueck wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Elite schools transmute money into merit. Eh, I don't know. Those schools transmute money into networks for sure, but the degree they do it for merit seems drastically less, perhaps it's even initially a negative at first. I mean, the lazy rich kid who got into Yale because of daddy is such a well-established stereotype now that it's almost the default expectation. :)

The point of laundering is sneaking in just enough bad with the good that it's more difficult/expensive to sort it out again than it is to accept that it's good and doesn't damage the brand. The reputation of elite institutions is a product of them mixing in just enough bad[sons and daughters of the elite[1]] with the meritorious[high student performers] that it's not worth it for us to sort it out ourselves and does…

> The lazy rich kid to you, may be the perfect candidate to a VP hiring for an influential role.

If the candidate is perfect because of the skills, work ethic, etc. then they by definition have merit, so that's not the type we're talking about.

> I'd be hasty to generalize your own perspective to those who are filling those seats.

I'm not. :)

> The meritorious care far less about the reputation of elite institutions than the elite do.

Yes, that's what I've been saying from the get-go.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#236

Post by darth_avocado »

buzzert wrote: post #228
darth_avocado wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s be really honest about this, most people don’t move for education.

60.08% of Stanford students come from out of state, and 12.26% come from out of the country. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/stanford-university/...

I think you’re missing the context of my comment. What I meant was most people moving from India don’t move to US purely for “education”, if that was the case, they’d be going back to India after they were done.

The parent of my comment was arguing that public education in India (schooling and college) is not great and therefore people move to US. In reality that’s far from the truth. Sure, there’s always exceptions and some people do purely want to pursue some specific form of education that’s unavailable in India, pretending that publicly funded education is never good is just plain disingenuous.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#237

Post by RajT88 »

monero-xmr wrote: post #231
RajT88 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal work/family visa holders already have this check: https://www.usa.gov/visas Are you suggesting changes to the visitor visas? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-... What you propose doesn't make sense for visitor visas. What exactly are you suggesting, and what problem do you think it is going to solve? Furthermore, if you accept that it's not really that much of a problem and a "Trust b…

The problem is we have hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants streaming across the border with no plan, so they sleep in shelters and on the street in NYC. We can’t kick them out because they have the right to see a judge which often takes over 6 months. Who will feed and clothe and shelter and care for them? Taxpayers, which is why NYC is begging for a federal bailout. The legal immigration system should be ref…

What you are wanting will not fix that.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#238

Post by darth_avocado »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #146
darth_avocado wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a partisan issue and politics should not even be involved. Other countries do it and it’s a no brainer. For example, India has a blanket education cess that individuals and corporations pay, and in return public education (school and college) is heavily subsidized (Schools are next to free). Everyone benefits from this investment and it’s mind boggling we still are fighting over this. https://cleartax.in/g/t…

Where do you think Indians (like me) move for higher education when given the opportunity.

Also, since I can’t edit my other comment, by your logic, if you are able to move from India to US, get into great universities for higher education, I would consider that as a testament to the fact that publicly funded education absolutely works, unless your argument is that only people who went to private schooling can make it here.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#239

Post by liotier »

dataflow wrote: post #221
liotier wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arbitrage, it is not just for hedge funds. And by now, everyone south of the Mediterranean, or south of the Rio Grande, knows that North America and the EU are not the land of milk and honey. They know what to expect, the price to pay to build a better life. Half of my friends here are sub-saharan Africans, most of whom came illegally, a bunch of which came on the dreaded pneumatic boats through Libya, Morocco and Tu…

You're conflating "perceived quality of life" with "actual demand in the job market". That's the distinction I was trying to make. I don't get the impression the migrants necessarily know (or have much opportunity to care if so) anything about the job markets at their destinations. They often don't even know where they'll finally end up, let alone what kinds of jobs they'll end up having to take -- or, as many discov…

Orderlies, kitchen help, cleaners, gardeners, construction laborers, nannies... Those hard jobs here are just not staffed without migrant labor. The scarcity is such that the government avert their eyes from all the illegal work: those industries would dysfunction otherwise. Immigration policy does not follow economic logic but the political requirement to cater to xenophobia.

I've traveled in 25 African countries. Everyone and his dog has an Android in his pocket with varying amounts of data access. Yes, some in small towns still entertain illusions, but they are not the ones who travel most. Those are the ones with sufficient education, family connections, friends, motivation and money to make an informed bet and quickly integrate. The goat herder in rural Mali has no idea about Paris but the urban student in Dakar most definitely knows.

And that is the surprising part: desire to migrate follows a bell curve: as people becomes richer and better educated, desire to migrate grows, until sufficient development has been obtained and then, witness Mexico, desire to migrate declines.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#240

Post by kelseyfrog »

dbrueck wrote: post #235
kelseyfrog wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of laundering is sneaking in just enough bad with the good that it's more difficult/expensive to sort it out again than it is to accept that it's good and doesn't damage the brand. The reputation of elite institutions is a product of them mixing in just enough bad[sons and daughters of the elite[1]] with the meritorious[high student performers] that it's not worth it for us to sort it out ourselves and does…

> The lazy rich kid to you, may be the perfect candidate to a VP hiring for an influential role. If the candidate is perfect because of the skills, work ethic, etc. then they by definition have merit, so that's not the type we're talking about. > I'd be hasty to generalize your own perspective to those who are filling those seats. I'm not. :) > The meritorious care far less about the reputation of elite institutions…

> If the candidate is perfect because of the skills, work ethic, etc. then they by definition have merit, so that's not the type we're talking about.

I mean like that "nobody got fired for choosing IBM"-type perfect fit.

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