Live data from Hacker News

Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

thenation.com

221–230 of 288 posts

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Immigration exists because market demand for workforce exists The massive wave of migration the US is seeing from (say) Venezuela is due to market demand in the US? Are you sure there isn't a bigger factor driving this?

Arbitrage, it is not just for hedge funds. And by now, everyone south of the Mediterranean, or south of the Rio Grande, knows that North America and the EU are not the land of milk and honey. They know what to expect, the price to pay to build a better life. Half of my friends here are sub-saharan Africans, most of whom came illegally, a bunch of which came on the dreaded pneumatic boats through Libya, Morocco and Tu…

You're conflating "perceived quality of life" with "actual demand in the job market". That's the distinction I was trying to make. I don't get the impression the migrants necessarily know (or have much opportunity to care if so) anything about the job markets at their destinations. They often don't even know where they'll finally end up, let alone what kinds of jobs they'll end up having to take -- or, as many discover, be left unable to take and have to end up on the streets. They just know where they don't want to be (in an impoverished country, in the middle of immediate threats to their lives, etc.), and they know they won't have the same problems they had back home irrespective of whether/how they earn an income, so they solve that part and worry about the rest later.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#222
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Require immigrants to be self-sustaining at some minimum amount. Have a job ready or otherwise prove the ability to pay for your housing (someone willing to board you). These are the sorts of arguments which get trotted out for only certain kinds of immigrants. Where I live in Chicagoland, Eastern European immigrants (Poles especially) face a lot of the same kinds of issues. Lots of signs and documents are printed…

That’s fine - let’s codify it then. The law says you have to have that situation, or you can’t come to the US. I’d support it.

Legal work/family visa holders already have this check:

https://www.usa.gov/visas

Are you suggesting changes to the visitor visas?

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-...

What you propose doesn't make sense for visitor visas.

What exactly are you suggesting, and what problem do you think it is going to solve?

Furthermore, if you accept that it's not really that much of a problem and a "Trust but Verify" type of situation, why bother given the risk of unequal/selective enforcement?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an interesting experience a decade ago when I spent a week recruiting at UT Austin and the next week recruiting at MIT, both for software engineering jobs. UT Austin is no slouch, but it doesn't have the reputation of MIT for software engineering related majors. We collected several hundred resumes from each. Only the best resumes from UT Austin were as good as the worst resumes from MIT. But, talking to the st…

I think part of this too is that the top universities are really good at metric hacking. I do agree that the biases are baked in, but the other aspect is the compounding effects. E.g. MIT students have a better "foot in the door" for internships, research opportunities (especially at undergrad), and so on. Not only does their name do lifting, but they get more recruiters and the universities themselves do a lot of li…

Yeah, it certainly can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. One of the MIT students we hired eventually left us to create a startup when they were accepted into a Y Combinator class. When it came time to pitch for their series A at Andreessen Horowitz, their YC advisor told them to wear their college sweatshirts to the pitch (MIT and an ivy). Apparently, the business plan / product hardly even came up in the pitch - according to one of them, it was just a "bro-down about our schools." They got the money.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s probably a pretty smart idea. The “ideal tax” is probably a wealth indexed income tax. We don’t like the idea of just taxing wealth because you have it. We do tax income but it’s hard to scale it in a way that people perceive as fair. What we want is to make it harder for the rich to get richer without making it harder for the poor to get rich. That is, if you’re a billionaire, every dollar is taxed at 99 cents.…

Why does receiving rent involve more layered financial transactions than paying rent?

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Perhaps you’re not familiar with “economic rent”?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#225

> There’s the age-old question of how we pay for this. Sanders proposed a Wall Street financial transactions tax. A 0.1 percent tax, according to a Congressional Budget Office estimate, could raise $777 billion over 10 years. Or we could hike taxes on corporations and the wealthiest Americans. I have no problem taxing wall street or "the wealthiest Americans", but I don't see the connection between this proposal and…

It’s probably a pretty smart idea. The “ideal tax” is probably a wealth indexed income tax. We don’t like the idea of just taxing wealth because you have it. We do tax income but it’s hard to scale it in a way that people perceive as fair. What we want is to make it harder for the rich to get richer without making it harder for the poor to get rich. That is, if you’re a billionaire, every dollar is taxed at 99 cents.…

You seem to be either assuming that the rich are making large numbers of transactions. Consider Bill Gates and Warren Buffet as counterexamples. They're mainly holding stock and watching it go up.

I mean, a 0.1% tax on financial transactions would kill day trading, and I'm not sure anything would be lost. But if your goal is to tax the rich, then tax the rich, not financial transactions.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not free for them, it's being taken out of their income to the point their salaries are significantly lower than the US. This is like saying if I pre-order a game and then play it when it comes out I'm getting a free game. I have no idea why this is the default answer whenever this comes up. It seems like you're trying to sway opinions by gaslighting what's really happening. Why is it hard to admit the term free…

The thing the article talks about is: not charging for tuition, ever. It's not some kind of loan program or pay later program. Those programs have been discussed, are in place in certain places (australia for example), but is not what people are talking about here. Unless you are saying "if everyone goes, and everyone pays taxes, it's a wash"? In which case, that's not close to the reality of the situation. As a perc…

I'm not talking about the article. I'm referring directly to the comment chain about "free" healthcare.

Regardless, taxes are NOT FREE. College will never be free, you can only pass the cost on to someone else. Somewhere, someone in the chain has to pay for it. If someone provides you a service then it gets paid for by someone. If no one pays for it then it's slavery and the people providing the service pay with their own bodies/minds.

Obviously you're not suggesting professors and people that run the university not get paid.... so who is paying for it? This isn't a hard concept and yet you keep kicking the can down the road suggesting it's free free free. Where does the money come from?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does receiving rent involve more layered financial transactions than paying rent?

I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Perhaps you’re not familiar with “economic rent”?

It's not clear to me that rent of any sort of metaphorical capacity involves a larger number of transactions per dollar than anything else. All I can see it accomplishing is getting rid of high frequency trading and to a lesser extent day trading... Neither of which are pastimes of rich people but rather are middle class jobs of questionable yet arguable value.

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think Indians (like me) move for higher education when given the opportunity.

Let’s be really honest about this, most people don’t move for education.

60.08% of Stanford students come from out of state, and 12.26% come from out of the country.

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/stanford-university/...

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#229
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving out legacy admission is Equity. You're giving "legacy" people the same education as people who earned it through merit, which is the definition of being equitable. Unless, you believe equity only applies to race? Equality is the term you're looking for.

Equitable, adj: fair and impartial. If you actually believe that legacy admissions are a fair and impartial way to decide who gets to go to Harvard, I'm not really sure what to say.

Equity is an outcome. You're suggesting we FORCE an outcome and apparently you don't want to base it on legacy. So, what are we basing the forced outcome on? Race? Victim-hood? Gender? Class? Are lower class people of color more deserving of equity?

How do you make something equitable? You need to think through the process of how that works. It's every bit as "fair" to gift admissions to family members as it is to someone because they're a different skin tone. Which is to say, both are stupid.

How about we give people the resources and they can prove they deserve it through merit?

Re: Stop Arguing over Elite Schools. Just Make Public Colleges Free

#230
post #143

Do you realize how "free college" works in other nations? Not everyone gets to go. In places like Germany you're put on a track when you're like middle school age and if you're not on the university track you do not get to attend college. IF we're going to start using tax dollars to full fund public higher ed then not everyone gets the chance to go like they do now. Maybe this is a better way of doing it but I can gu…

It is close to that in the US. In middle school you are put on an advanced/honors track and without it you won't get AP or other advanced classes in high-school. You can make all A's and won't be anywhere near the top of your class because A's in those advanced class are usually set up to count for more on your GPA.

It's not. You might not get into Ivy League school but ANYONE can take out a loan and get into a state university of a public university. Hell, a lot of colleges don't even require SAT or ACT anymore.

Where are you getting the idea that you need to have good grades to attend college in the US?

Post reply on HN