Good. Things with positive externalities should be subsidized
Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
61–70 of 82 posts
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
This may be due to most of the company CEO's receiving these subsidies don't make a regular point of speaking out against government subsidies. It's not necessarily the subsidy that attracts criticism, it's the hypocrisy.
It's not hypocrisy to believe no one should have subsidies including oneself. It just means you want a level playing field, not a distorted one. And taking a subsidy when you don't believe in them, is reasonable too, because you don't really have other options.
It's not hypocritical to believe something, but it is hypocritical to act in a way contrary to the belief you are espousing.
A usable definition of hypocrisy is "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform".
In this case, a belief that car companies should not be subsidized by government while simultaneously accepting subsidies from government. The act (accepting subsidies) does not match the stated belief (shouldn't accept subsidies).
To take it a step further, he could be less hypocritical if he changed his stance to along the lines of "there shouldn't be EV subsidies unless the company needs them to stay in business", but to my knowledge that is not his position.
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
So he actively sabotaged an Ukrainian attack against the Russian navy, just as I initially stated? His excuse is bullshit too > If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation Refusing to help the defender is siding with the offender by allowing them to continue their senseless war of agression and genocide. > Calling someone a fascist is a pre…
Refusing to help Ukraine in that case was complying with US policy of not providing guided weapons with that range. But alas, it's clear you aren't actually interested in hearing the truth.
So satellite internet is a guided weapon?
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#64What’s the point of the page if the information is incomplete ? For example the number about the 466 million federal loan I believe does not include the fact that it was paid back with interest (so taxpayers made money on that).
That is still a subsidy, no? It's money that materially improved the health of the company. Does everyone and every company who wanted 466 millions had it available? And was the interest and other loan conditions market rate?
The subsidy here is the difference between the regular bank interest and the actual interest. Likely in single digit millions
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Refusing to help Ukraine in that case was complying with US policy of not providing guided weapons with that range. But alas, it's clear you aren't actually interested in hearing the truth.
So satellite internet is a guided weapon?
It's a weapons component in this case. I'll remind you everyone exporting night vision equipment to Ukraine is violating export control laws..enforced or not
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not hypocrisy to believe no one should have subsidies including oneself. It just means you want a level playing field, not a distorted one. And taking a subsidy when you don't believe in them, is reasonable too, because you don't really have other options.
It's not hypocritical to believe something, but it is hypocritical to act in a way contrary to the belief you are espousing. A usable definition of hypocrisy is "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform". In this case, a belief that car companies should not be subsidized by government while simultaneously accepting subsidies from government. The act (acc…
Giving a handout is not the same thing as taking one, so it's really not hypocritical to take a handout while believing the handout should not exist.
For example, someone could be opposed to student loan debt forgiveness in principle, but that same person would probably not rip up their check.
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Refusing to help Ukraine in that case was complying with US policy of not providing guided weapons with that range. But alas, it's clear you aren't actually interested in hearing the truth.
So satellite internet is a guided weapon?
Ukraine obviously didn't have control over territory in Crimea, so any use for Starlink there would be about using it as a remote control system for a weapon, which does make it a key component of a weapon guidance system and thus something that the US did not want operating all the way through Crimea at the time. This has only recently changed with the US agreeing to supply ATACMS.
It's kind of funny on many levels that when Musk or his businesses go against the US government or don't stick perfectly to its interests, your types rush out of the woodworks screeching about how the company needs to be seized and forced into compliance. But when they carefully follow the government's position, your types rush out to argue that the company and its CEO specifically are propping up a genocide. It's a lose-lose situation and so no wonder SpaceX et al mostly don't bother commenting on the lie of the week.
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#68Also: Boeing 15 billion dollars, amazon 11b, intel 8b, ford 7.7b, foxconn 4.8b, etc. This organised propaganda against Tesla needs to stop, sure Musk is an a*hole, is he an evil a*hole like some othe CEOs? I don't know... Electric cars are still something beneficial to the sustainability of the car industry and the environment. And Ford still got more money... Foxconn uses slaves to make a luxury device that's market…
who would've thought a simple fact about tesla would be so triggering. IMO the post was quite neutral so hold off on your bias.
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not hypocritical to believe something, but it is hypocritical to act in a way contrary to the belief you are espousing. A usable definition of hypocrisy is "the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform". In this case, a belief that car companies should not be subsidized by government while simultaneously accepting subsidies from government. The act (acc…
Giving a handout is not the same thing as taking one, so it's really not hypocritical to take a handout while believing the handout should not exist. For example, someone could be opposed to student loan debt forgiveness in principle, but that same person would probably not rip up their check.
In both cases it depends on how the belief is formed and expressed.
To build upon your examples:
Case 1 Belief: "I don't believe student loan debts should be forgiven." Action: Accepts student loan forgiveness. Outcome: Hypocritical. Action directly conflicts with the belief, ergo the belief is not truly held.
Case 2 Belief 1: "I don't believe student loan debts should be forgiven for everyone." Belief 2: "I believe I fall in the category of people who should have student loans forgiven." Action: Accepts student loan forgiveness. Outcome: Not inherently hypocritical, provided Belief 2 is expressed alongside Belief 1. Not disclosing belief 2 makes the behavior hypocritical, as to an observer only belief 1 is held.
To link this back to the example of Musk, if he expressed his belief as "I don't believe most firms need subsidies, but the ones to my firm are warranted for reason Y" that would help avoid hypocrisy. To my limited knowledge, that is not the approach he takes.
Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting
#70To put this in context, fossil fuel subsidies, just from 2015 - 2022: $42 trillion Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Reached $7 Trillion in 2022: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuel-subsidies-2022
Seems dishonest to compare a single American company to a global industry containing way more than just transportation fuel.
Even more dishonest is including implicit subsidies right next to actual cash payouts.