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Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org

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Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow Boeing getting billions is not sexy enough to discuss on the internet, unless we can fit in “Musk” in the headline in some way.

Boeing hasn't repeatedly shat on subsidies and said they're self-made while pocketing massive government benefits.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me to want a subsidy abolished and also use it while it exists. Presumably they want it abolished for everyone not just themselves.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow Boeing getting billions is not sexy enough to discuss on the internet, unless we can fit in “Musk” in the headline in some way.

Boeing hasn't repeatedly shat on subsidies and said they're self-made while pocketing massive government benefits.

If you compare these subsidies with the total revenues and profits of Tesla over the last 15 years, you should reach an interesting conclusion.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#43
Automobile-based transportation and city design is inherently subsidized. It’s the biggest form of socialism that American individualism accepts unlike any other: free parking for everyone, free roads for everyone. It doesn’t matter how much weight or size your vehicle has, being charged money for parking or paying a lot of money at the gas pump is seen as an assault on freedom itself.

I believe I read that Massachusetts spends something like $12,000 per capita on public roads and highways. And yet we keep telling ourselves that transit oriented development and mass transit is “expensive.”

in the status quo of typical car-focused urban development, the US government needs to subsidize EV car companies or else other countries with lower labor costs will demolish the US automotive industry and consumers will be forfeiting too much of their earnings on the basic needs of daily transportation as oil becomes more and more scarce.

The big 3 automakers are already propped up by the chicken tax. It’s no coincidence that trucks drive most of the profit of US automakers and that they’ve been moved from utilitarian work vehicles to family cars to maximize sales. If you sell a family a sedan it’ll be low profit margin, competing with dozens of other options. Sell them an F-150 and you enjoy an oligopoly with a small subset of brands that have factories in the US.

I’d like automotive subsidy to be redirected into fixing urban design mistakes and meaningfully reduce car trips per capita. I’m not talking about extreme stuff like eliminating cars entirely, I’m talking about a situation where the majority of people don’t feel the need to get in a car to meet 100% of their daily needs.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When has a Musk? Do you have an example?

Since the other comments just say it's easy to find (very much true), I'll give you this link. Here he says the government should end subsidies. There's plenty more, I promise. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/6/22821532/elon-musk-biden-...

The thing is, if the government ended all subsidies it would be a much more level playing field for electric competitors to petroleum and Tesla wouldn't have to go hunting for its own subsidies.

That said the article is interesting because to my eyes he's pursuing the same "pull the ladder up" mentality that all the big players do:

> Musk also said he doesn’t believe the US government should be giving out subsidies to expand charging infrastructure

Of course he'd say that (so says my suspicious brain). In 2021 Tesla had a good lock on charging infra. Subsidizing it makes it easier for competitors to get in on it.

Not sure what it means, but in 2023 Tesla's charging standard is becoming closer to "the standard."[1]

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/more-a...

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walter Issacson (the author who originally broke the news on this story) later clarified that he was mistaken on the timeline. Calling someone a fascist is a pretty wild accusation, especially when it seems it was motivated by a misunderstanding. "Hi, Tim. Based on my conversations with Musk, I mistakenly thought the policy to not allow Starlink to be used for an attack on Crimea had been first decided on the night o…

So he actively sabotaged an Ukrainian attack against the Russian navy, just as I initially stated? His excuse is bullshit too > If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation Refusing to help the defender is siding with the offender by allowing them to continue their senseless war of agression and genocide. > Calling someone a fascist is a pre…

Refusing to help Ukraine in that case was complying with US policy of not providing guided weapons with that range.

But alas, it's clear you aren't actually interested in hearing the truth.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#46
It is a good thing that Tesla got and is getting subsidies same for solar panel and most other renewable tech. Without it China would be the leader in electric vehicles. Looking at how cost of batteries as well as solar panels is decreasing every year. China dominated manufacturing with cheap labor in the last 20-25 years. And as more automated manufacturing comes online it would have dominated that as well as they would have cheaper electricity and transport.

Forget pollution etc with the current trajectory electric cars and solar electricity will keep getting cheaper so if US and other countries do not subsidies and promote manufacturing now they will become uncompetitive in the near future.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#47
post #43

Automobile-based transportation and city design is inherently subsidized. It’s the biggest form of socialism that American individualism accepts unlike any other: free parking for everyone, free roads for everyone. It doesn’t matter how much weight or size your vehicle has, being charged money for parking or paying a lot of money at the gas pump is seen as an assault on freedom itself. I believe I read that Massachus…

Oh yeah. Because most of the tax revenue comes from rural areas, and is only then funneled to support these unproductive city dwellers wasting it on all this pointless infrastructure.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#48

This is the more interesting page of that website imo. https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/megadeals Shows the companies that receive subsidies and how much. I will note that Tesla isn't close to being the largest recipient of subsidies but recieves by far the most outrage.

This may be due to most of the company CEO's receiving these subsidies don't make a regular point of speaking out against government subsidies. It's not necessarily the subsidy that attracts criticism, it's the hypocrisy.

It's not hypocrisy to believe no one should have subsidies including oneself. It just means you want a level playing field, not a distorted one. And taking a subsidy when you don't believe in them, is reasonable too, because you don't really have other options.

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#49
post #43

Automobile-based transportation and city design is inherently subsidized. It’s the biggest form of socialism that American individualism accepts unlike any other: free parking for everyone, free roads for everyone. It doesn’t matter how much weight or size your vehicle has, being charged money for parking or paying a lot of money at the gas pump is seen as an assault on freedom itself. I believe I read that Massachus…

Given that $12,000 per person would come out to $84B, and the entire FY24 budget for Massachusetts is $56B, you’re full of shit

Re: Subsidies Awarded to Tesla Inc: at least $2,829,855,494 and Counting

#50
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/EE... I don't think Tesla has our country's policy goals in mind.

The allegations here are very serious, but it can be simultaneously true that a company is doing important work, and that they need to fix deep problems in their workplace culture.

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