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Python 3.12

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Re: Python 3.12

#211
post #5

Everything aside, I enjoyed the "And now for something completely different" part.

It's a poem advocating empathy, people, not an edict on border control policy. Are people really so sensitive that they can't handle being reminded that other people may think differently than them?

[dead]

Re: Python 3.12

#212
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both-sides-ism is not some kind of "free points" move in an argument. It's entirely consistent to believe (a) that a "tame" political statement supporting immigrants is acceptable in release notes, while also believing (b) that a cutesy poem defaming immigrants would be abhorrent and unacceptable. No one has an obligation to think that all political messages are acceptable just because they think that some political…

> It's entirely consistent to believe (a) that a "tame" political statement supporting immigrants is acceptable in release notes, while also believing (b) that a cutesy poem defaming immigrants would be abhorrent and unacceptable. The opposing cutesy poem wouldn't be defaming immigrants! It would be acknowledging a nation can't exist without borders, sovereignty matters, and unchecked migration is not universally goo…

> It would be acknowledging a nation can't exist without borders,

So the EU and US are both monolithic blocks with no internal diversity, right?

"Acknowledging" is an especially interesting choice of word here, as if presupposing that your misunderstanding of the world is inherently correct.

Re: Python 3.12

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO there is nothing "fortunate" about dragging politics into programming, regardless of your or mine views. I would find it fortunate and valuable if at least certain human activites stayed out of political culture wars entirely. If, instead of "my side, your side", there simply wasn't any need to think of a side for a moment. I already deleted my FB and TW account to get rid of incessant political flamewars and I…

I’ve always considered the no-politics at work rule to be a neutral zone in an armistice. It’s been in effect for so long people have forgotten why it existed and see nothing wrong with resuming agitations. The ‘politics is personal’ and ‘bring your whole self to work’ shift is an intentional reinsertion of politics back into work and like the Chesterton’s fence parable I think we’ll rediscover why that rule was ther…

The people advocating for bringing politics to work forget that people with opposing views will also do the same, and then you end up with a hostile, polarized and distracting work environment.

Re: Python 3.12

#214
post #5

Everything aside, I enjoyed the "And now for something completely different" part.

It's so hecking wholesome I started crying. My wife's son came to ask me, "Frank, why you crying?". I had to explain to him there's evil people in this world who oppose open borders.

Ah yes. People who disagree with you are evil. Maybe ask them why they disagree. Maybe they see societal problems with open borders. Maybe there's a reason governments don't just have open borders, and instead try to manage the immigration process.

Re: Python 3.12

#215
They keep getting improved error messaging and this is one of my favorite features. But I'd love if we could get some real rich text. Idk if anyone else uses rich, but it has infected all my programs now. Not just to print with colors, but because it makes debugging so much easier. Not just print(f"{var=}") but the handler[0,1]. Color is so important to these types of things and so is formatting. Plus, the progress bars are nice and have almost completely replaced tqdm for me[2]. They're just easier and prettier.

[0] https://rich.readthedocs.io/en/stable/logging.html

[1] Try this example: https://github.com/Textualize/rich/blob/master/examples/exce...

[2] Side note: does anyone know how to get these properly working when using DDP with pytorch? I get flickering when using this and I think it is actually down to a pytorch issue and how they're handling their loggers and flushing the screen. I know pytorch doesn't want to depend on rich, but hey, pip uses rich so why shouldn't everyone?

Re: Python 3.12

#216

Not yet available through Homebrew. But this link will go live when it is: https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/python@3.12

pro tip: don't install user python using homebrew; use a dedicated version manager (like pyenv or adsf).

More info: https://justinmayer.com/posts/homebrew-python-is-not-for-you...

Re: Python 3.12

#218

What's new: https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.12.html Summary, sorry for poor formatting, I'm not sure HN can do a list of any kind? New features More flexible f-string parsing, allowing many things previously disallowed (PEP 701). Support for the buffer protocol in Python code (PEP 688). A new debugging/profiling API (PEP 669). Support for isolated subinterpreters with separate Global Interpreter Locks (PEP 684…

> I'm not sure HN can do a list of any kind? It can, just use `-` characters for bullets, like in Markdown. They won't render as Unicode bullet points but dashes are fine enough.

You have to leave two newlines between each one though.

- If you don't - Your list looks like this

Whereas:

- This list

- Has two newlines between

- Each item

Re: Python 3.12

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. One could hope, but any library abusing kwargs in all their methods is showing they’re willing to go through the absolute minimum to make their code usable, let alone readable and self-documenting.

It feels like we're going in cycles. C was somewhat lax with type checking, thus C++ and Java were both made more strict. Looking to escape the tyranny of static typing, the rise of Python, Ruby, or JavaScript instead left us with a desire that Rust, Go, and TypeScript now fulfill. I wonder what's the next step? LLMs are extremely broad in what they accept, but don't exactly fill the same niches.

Python is very strict about type checking, it just does it at runtime.

The next step is Idris, where you define starting and desired type and start interactive shell to figure out right way to get there.

Re: Python 3.12

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think political advocacy belongs in an announcement of a Python version.

For people who downvote Bostonian for his comment, how would you like it if that announcement, say, contained an abortion-related proclamation that you don't agree with? "Share our food, Share our homes and Share our countries" is quite a big demand on everyone else. I am certainly not willing to do so without limit and without regard to context (e.g. the Muslim gang war that flared up in Sweden).

Brotherman, behold the wonder that is the sqlite code of ethics https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html

Or Terry Davis of Losethos/TempleOS fame https://streamable.com/ty65k

And you know what? Most people are kinda chill about that.

Perhaps there's a reason the anti-abortion guy isn't releasing Python.

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