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Python 3.12

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Re: Python 3.12

#111

Post by dragonwriter »

moduspol wrote: post #102
IKantRead wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you articulate what that opposing view is in this case? It's also worth pointing out that Python (and it's ecosystem) is developed by an international team of people, most of whom volunteer their time out of good will and sense of shared purpose across diverse cultures. The "both sides" logic seems to miss the point that world without mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation would be one that wo…

One can be supportive of mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation while also acknowledging that a nation doesn't exist without borders, sovereignty matters, and that unchecked migration is not universally good. When you include the contemporary context of illegal US border crossings at record numbers [1], it's clearly making a political statement. Pretending the development of a programming language i…

> acknowledging that a nation doesn't exist without borders

At a minimum, you are confusing “nation” with “state”, as the former manifestly can exist without borders, which are a feature of the latter.

Re: Python 3.12

#112

Post by zackees »

dandiep wrote: post #74

Ooh, seems there is a new syntax for declaring the types of kwargs [1]: from typing import TypedDict, Unpack class Movie(TypedDict): name: str year: int def foo(*kwargs: Unpack[Movie]): ... Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. 1. https://docs.python.org/3.12/whatsnew/3.12.html#pep-692-usin...

[dead]

Re: Python 3.12

#113

Post by Earwig »

appplication wrote: post #96
dandiep wrote: post #74

Ooh, seems there is a new syntax for declaring the types of kwargs [1]: from typing import TypedDict, Unpack class Movie(TypedDict): name: str year: int def foo(*kwargs: Unpack[Movie]): ... Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. 1. https://docs.python.org/3.12/whatsnew/3.12.html#pep-692-usin...

> Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. One could hope, but any library abusing kwargs in all their methods is showing they’re willing to go through the absolute minimum to make their code usable, let alone readable and self-documenting.

This is excellent for adding typing to libraries originally designed without it in mind while keeping backwards compatibility.

Re: Python 3.12

#114

Post by parttimenerd »

reaperman wrote: post #67

What are the best ways to utilize PEP 669? I’m always looking for two things: a good “time-travel” debugging experience (PyCrunch-Trace seems to be broken for me) and for a way to generate and view large traces (Firefox Performance Profiler can’t open traces that lasted 2-5 minutes because they're too large) PEP 669: Low impact monitoring for CPython PEP 669 defines a new API for profilers, debuggers, and other tools…

It's an interesting new API. I hope to write a blog post on implementing a debugger with it soon.

Re: Python 3.12

#115

Post by lm28469 »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #56
inglor_cz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people who downvote Bostonian for his comment, how would you like it if that announcement, say, contained an abortion-related proclamation that you don't agree with? "Share our food, Share our homes and Share our countries" is quite a big demand on everyone else. I am certainly not willing to do so without limit and without regard to context (e.g. the Muslim gang war that flared up in Sweden).

I think the idea is you are welcome to read it top to bottom or bottom to top. Whichever fits your needs.

> Whichever fits your needs

So the only choices are "let's abolish borders and live happily ever after" or "all migrants are killers/thieves/bombers we should build a wall". How diverse and subtile! If you frame problems like that it's easy to think you're in the "good guys" camp

Re: Python 3.12

#116

Post by dagmx »

dandiep wrote: post #74

Ooh, seems there is a new syntax for declaring the types of kwargs [1]: from typing import TypedDict, Unpack class Movie(TypedDict): name: str year: int def foo(*kwargs: Unpack[Movie]): ... Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. 1. https://docs.python.org/3.12/whatsnew/3.12.html#pep-692-usin...

I wonder if Unpack works on a function? I assume it’s any callable.

Re: Python 3.12

#117

Post by rollcat »

appplication wrote: post #96
dandiep wrote: post #74

Ooh, seems there is a new syntax for declaring the types of kwargs [1]: from typing import TypedDict, Unpack class Movie(TypedDict): name: str year: int def foo(*kwargs: Unpack[Movie]): ... Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. 1. https://docs.python.org/3.12/whatsnew/3.12.html#pep-692-usin...

> Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. One could hope, but any library abusing kwargs in all their methods is showing they’re willing to go through the absolute minimum to make their code usable, let alone readable and self-documenting.

It feels like we're going in cycles. C was somewhat lax with type checking, thus C++ and Java were both made more strict. Looking to escape the tyranny of static typing, the rise of Python, Ruby, or JavaScript instead left us with a desire that Rust, Go, and TypeScript now fulfill. I wonder what's the next step? LLMs are extremely broad in what they accept, but don't exactly fill the same niches.

Re: Python 3.12

#118

Post by mtlynch »

IKantRead wrote: post #110
moduspol wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can be supportive of mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation while also acknowledging that a nation doesn't exist without borders, sovereignty matters, and that unchecked migration is not universally good. When you include the contemporary context of illegal US border crossings at record numbers [1], it's clearly making a political statement. Pretending the development of a programming language i…

Could you point out where they are supporting "unchecked migration"? The statement there only reads to me as a call to have compassion for those caught up in what will be a perpetually escalating migration crisis (and will likely soon make migrants of those who are currently protecting their borders). > Pretending the development of a programming language is inexorably linked to unchecked immigration is disingenuous.…

I'm not sure how to interpret these lines in a way that doesn't suggest support for unchecked immigration:

>Do not be so stupid to think that

>A place should only belong to those who are born there

>...

>It is not okay to say

>Build a wall to keep them out

Re: Python 3.12

#119

Post by lvass »

Alosra wrote: post #5

Everything aside, I enjoyed the "And now for something completely different" part.

I dislike it because it's kinda hard to understand (can't really say I did) specially without any context, and programming language release notes are something people should read even a hundred years afterwards.

Re: Python 3.12

#120

Post by gaazoh »

inglor_cz wrote: post #39
Bostonian wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think political advocacy belongs in an announcement of a Python version.

For people who downvote Bostonian for his comment, how would you like it if that announcement, say, contained an abortion-related proclamation that you don't agree with? "Share our food, Share our homes and Share our countries" is quite a big demand on everyone else. I am certainly not willing to do so without limit and without regard to context (e.g. the Muslim gang war that flared up in Sweden).

> how would you like it if that announcement, say, contained an abortion-related proclamation that you don't agree with?

"If they said something else wouldn't you feel different?"

A key insight is that the poem doesn't contain an abortion-related proclamation that you don't agree with.

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