Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Python 3.12

python.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 344 posts

Re: Python 3.12

#101

Post by seanw444 »

IKantRead wrote: post #95
moduspol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you feel the same way if it were a cutesy poem supporting an opposing view?

Could you articulate what that opposing view is in this case? It's also worth pointing out that Python (and it's ecosystem) is developed by an international team of people, most of whom volunteer their time out of good will and sense of shared purpose across diverse cultures. The "both sides" logic seems to miss the point that world without mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation would be one that wo…

> Could you articulate what that opposing view is in this case?

They wrote about how abortion is very often immoral and unnecessary. That would get people up in arms.

Re: Python 3.12

#102

Post by moduspol »

IKantRead wrote: post #95
moduspol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you feel the same way if it were a cutesy poem supporting an opposing view?

Could you articulate what that opposing view is in this case? It's also worth pointing out that Python (and it's ecosystem) is developed by an international team of people, most of whom volunteer their time out of good will and sense of shared purpose across diverse cultures. The "both sides" logic seems to miss the point that world without mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation would be one that wo…

One can be supportive of mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation while also acknowledging that a nation doesn't exist without borders, sovereignty matters, and that unchecked migration is not universally good.

When you include the contemporary context of illegal US border crossings at record numbers [1], it's clearly making a political statement. Pretending the development of a programming language is inexorably linked to unchecked immigration is disingenuous.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2023/08/31/border...

Re: Python 3.12

#103

Post by cjbgkagh »

inglor_cz wrote: post #79
macintux wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately you can read it either forwards or backwards to support your views.

IMHO there is nothing "fortunate" about dragging politics into programming, regardless of your or mine views. I would find it fortunate and valuable if at least certain human activites stayed out of political culture wars entirely. If, instead of "my side, your side", there simply wasn't any need to think of a side for a moment. I already deleted my FB and TW account to get rid of incessant political flamewars and I…

I’ve always considered the no-politics at work rule to be a neutral zone in an armistice. It’s been in effect for so long people have forgotten why it existed and see nothing wrong with resuming agitations. The ‘politics is personal’ and ‘bring your whole self to work’ shift is an intentional reinsertion of politics back into work and like the Chesterton’s fence parable I think we’ll rediscover why that rule was there in the first place.

Re: Python 3.12

#104

Post by ledauphin »

dandiep wrote: post #74

Ooh, seems there is a new syntax for declaring the types of kwargs [1]: from typing import TypedDict, Unpack class Movie(TypedDict): name: str year: int def foo(*kwargs: Unpack[Movie]): ... Maybe now I'll be able to actually figure out what data to send libraries without actually reading their source code. 1. https://docs.python.org/3.12/whatsnew/3.12.html#pep-692-usin...

what's especially interesting about this is that it could create a new "meta" for static typing in Python.

One significant issue with static typing in Python is how much boilerplate is required to use types when also doing the sorts of things that dynamic Python is really good at - for instance proxying functions. If you want to do that now and preserve the types, you need to re-declare the types of everything in the wrapper.

Now, if the underlying function already made use of Unpack, you could "reuse" that type in your own wrapper with low boilerplate and less chance of things diverging in hard-to-refactor ways.

Re: Python 3.12

#105

Post by moduspol »

bscphil wrote: post #71
moduspol wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you feel the same way if it were a cutesy poem supporting an opposing view?

Both-sides-ism is not some kind of "free points" move in an argument. It's entirely consistent to believe (a) that a "tame" political statement supporting immigrants is acceptable in release notes, while also believing (b) that a cutesy poem defaming immigrants would be abhorrent and unacceptable. No one has an obligation to think that all political messages are acceptable just because they think that some political…

> It's entirely consistent to believe (a) that a "tame" political statement supporting immigrants is acceptable in release notes, while also believing (b) that a cutesy poem defaming immigrants would be abhorrent and unacceptable.

The opposing cutesy poem wouldn't be defaming immigrants!

It would be acknowledging a nation can't exist without borders, sovereignty matters, and unchecked migration is not universally good.

That so many commenters here are missing a key factor here (that the opposing view is presented as a disingenuous straw-man in the release notes) is quite illustrative of why it's not being seen as an issue.

Re: Python 3.12

#106

Post by ledauphin »

ynik wrote: post #66
ptx wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since it currently lacks any way to transfer objects between interpreters other than pickling, does it offer any advantage over the multiprocessing module?

Not for pure python code; but there's massive advantages for mixed C(++) and Python: I can now have multiple sub interpreters running concurrently and accessing the same shared state in a thread-safe C++ library. Previously this required rewriting the whole C++ library to support either pickling (multiplying the total memory consumption by the number of cores), or support allocating everything in shared memory (which…

this is the _first_ place I've seen anyone clearly articulate an actual use case for subinterpreters. Thank you!

Re: Python 3.12

#107

Post by liquidpele »

bloopernova wrote: post #2

What's new: https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.12.html Summary, sorry for poor formatting, I'm not sure HN can do a list of any kind? New features More flexible f-string parsing, allowing many things previously disallowed (PEP 701). Support for the buffer protocol in Python code (PEP 688). A new debugging/profiling API (PEP 669). Support for isolated subinterpreters with separate Global Interpreter Locks (PEP 684…

Tbh the f-string stuff sounds pretty in-pythonic to me… like it would make it much harder to read and abuse.

Re: Python 3.12

#108

Post by zackees »

nothingnew2 wrote: post #76
bscphil wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both-sides-ism is not some kind of "free points" move in an argument. It's entirely consistent to believe (a) that a "tame" political statement supporting immigrants is acceptable in release notes, while also believing (b) that a cutesy poem defaming immigrants would be abhorrent and unacceptable. No one has an obligation to think that all political messages are acceptable just because they think that some political…

I think you've missed the entire point of the structure of the poem - the backward reading (ie, immigrants may share my home and food) is as "tame" as the forward reading. >That means you must also oppose empathetic messages in release notes, to be consistent. Yes. It will be interesting reading these cultural artifacts after 50 further years of geo-political development.

[dead]

Re: Python 3.12

#109

Post by seanw444 »

ShamelessC wrote: post #90
thatcherthorn wrote: post #18

As now f-strings can contain any valid Python expression inside expression components, it is now possible to nest f-strings arbitrarily: >>> f"{f"{f"{f"{f"{f"{1+1}"}"}"}"}"}" '2' Is anyone aware of the change to the interpreter that allows for this?

> Is anyone aware of the change to the interpreter that allows for this? Why answer your question when I could just brag about how my personal favorite language has supported this for awhile? /s

But did you know Javascript, Ruby, and Vimscript can already do it?

Re: Python 3.12

#110

Post by IKantRead »

moduspol wrote: post #102
IKantRead wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you articulate what that opposing view is in this case? It's also worth pointing out that Python (and it's ecosystem) is developed by an international team of people, most of whom volunteer their time out of good will and sense of shared purpose across diverse cultures. The "both sides" logic seems to miss the point that world without mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation would be one that wo…

One can be supportive of mutual aid and international, cross-cultural cooperation while also acknowledging that a nation doesn't exist without borders, sovereignty matters, and that unchecked migration is not universally good. When you include the contemporary context of illegal US border crossings at record numbers [1], it's clearly making a political statement. Pretending the development of a programming language i…

Could you point out where they are supporting "unchecked migration"?

The statement there only reads to me as a call to have compassion for those caught up in what will be a perpetually escalating migration crisis (and will likely soon make migrants of those who are currently protecting their borders).

> Pretending the development of a programming language is inexorably linked to unchecked immigration is disingenuous.

Where am I (or anyone else) making that claim? I'm claiming cross-cultural/international cooperation and mutual aid are unquestionably tied to the development of not just a programming language, but all open source software. Anyone who has worked in this space at all can likely list someone they have worked with on nearly every continent.

The fact that you view calls for compassion and empathy as calls for "unchecked migration" is a bit concerning.

Post reply on HN