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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#621

Post by Clubber »

grumblingdev wrote: post #31
TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #11

There are so many “habits” left over from industrial work. On an assembly line everyone needed to be in sync but this generally isn’t true for most office work. You need to be present at the factory to do the work, hasn’t been true for office work for awhile now. Yet we still operate synchronously. Everyone commutes through traffic/crowded public transport and risk catching the latest novel virus, to arrive at work a…

> an assembly line Now imagine working on an assembly line on your feet all day versus your office day job. The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I personally hated going into the office, but the morale effect is real. I think the main thing is people cannot be trusted to honestly tell you if they work better from the office. It's a nicer life working from home bu…

>The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world.

Sure, then have then design a database schema with a half ass business spec, and the'll realize why.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#622

Post by gingerrr »

plugin-baby wrote: post #574
trescenzi wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this is such a good example of why the office is actually a major liability. Being in person allows you to get away with creating a culture where documentation doesn't really exist and that tapping people on the shoulder is more efficient. Everyone will be better off if instead knowledge is shared efficiently. A good analogue is the culture of "the smoke break"(see the Friend's episode The One Where Rachel Smokes…

> Being in person allows you to get away with creating a culture where documentation doesn't really exist Viewed a different way, it allows a team to spend less time documenting and more time on other things. Increased documentation could be seen as one of the costs of working remotely.

Increased documentation is a cost you pay no matter what, you just pay it later in other formats when in-office - when the SME you treat as a guru finds a better-paying gig you have to scramble to rebuild their expertise from nothing or hope they are nice enough to do a thorough knowledge transfer. That kills productivity far worse and for longer than taking 30m at the end of your day updating some shared wiki.

All this to say, the trade-off you're proposing doesn't exist. You're arguing for paying twice instead of paying once - twice in the sense that you lose productivity now via random interrupts, and in the future when your siloed knowledge leaves you high and dry. Hope the "other things" you got done instead of documenting were worth it in that scenario.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#623

Post by aparticulate »

simbolit wrote: post #556
graublau wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be real — NPR executives are more concerned maintaining their agitprop operation than employee productivity

What is the value of your comment?

NPR is a demonstrably corrupt media org

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#624

Post by RandomLensman »

runako wrote: post #283
scottLobster wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking over and talking to someone is still far superior to any online communication. So unless you have a job that requires minimal communication on a day-to-day basis, an office is superior for productivity. Perhaps if everyone working from home were constantly available to screen-share/video chat it wouldn't be as bad, but my experience with WFH is people get distracted by kids/pets/etc and half the time I wait h…

> Walking over and talking to someone is still far superior to any online communication. This is an example of a local maximum. This form of communication is better for the person doing the walking, but worse when looked at through most other frames: - worse for the person being asked, who was interrupted - worse for the people who weren't privy to that conversation but perhaps could have learned or contributed excep…

You describe what sounds like slow moving places. When rapid reactions are required then even just being able to hear commotion a few rows of seats away can be quite valuable. Doesn't mean people cannot write questions well, but sometimes forcing attention now matters.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#625

Post by Clubber »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #588
greedo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The morale effect might be real for you, but for a large group of workers, their morale has improved since WFH. On my team of 24, only one chooses to work in the office...

Individual morale and team morale are separate. I have no doubt that their individual lives improved a lot (e.g., being able to freely do personal chores), at the expense of team morale (feeling like a part of a team at work).

So let me get this straight. To improve team morale, individual morale has to suffer, is that what you are saying?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#626

Post by BigRedDog1669 »

threesevenths wrote: post #533

We must all remain forever vigilant and be prepared to stand our ground against tyrrany, irrespective of the cost we will have to pay. I wish a social assistance service existed for tech workers where we pay a small monthly amount in and receive support for bills if we are fired for refusing RTO and being laid off. Such a group service would seriously blunt the sharpness of the sword at our throats by these bosses wh…

That service is called unemployment, but unfortunately the state unemployment agency defers to the company for the reason of termination rather than what you say. So if they say you quit voluntarily rather than because they violated their promises or OSHA rules, you don't get anything.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#627

Post by throwaway5959 »

ncallaway wrote: post #510
throwaway5959 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are allowed to have different preferences and lifestyles than the majority. I’m not a CEO so it’s not my place to decide what a company does or doesn’t do.

Right, I think it’s fine for people to have differences and differing preferences. My point is that if 5/100 people want to work in the office and 95/100 don’t, that’s fine. If 5/100 want to work in an office with 100 people, and force the others to return against their wishes that’s * not* fine. They can have their preference, but it seems wrong to me for their preference to override the preference of others. > I’m…

I never said that employees shouldn’t have preferences (I explicitly stated otherwise in another comment) and shouldn’t have a say in the matter. I was just saying that ultimately the CEO makes the call on RTO (at least that’s what it seems to be at megacorps), whether it’s the right or wrong one isn’t my call.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#628

Post by snotrockets »

eropple wrote: post #562
ajmurmann wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are a few things that aren't working out from a management perspective: Social bonding is much harder, but important for reliable collaboration, especially when there are disagreements. I also believe that conversations are more likely to derail when they aren't in person. I've also been part of so many lunch conversations in the office that resulted in someone being able to help out someone on a different team…

IMO: skill issue. Communicating effectively on camera is a learnable skill, it's not one most people in tech have. But making sure people are trained to do a good job is a management challenge and it's incumbent upon management to make sure people are doing it. If, after two years, your team still has trouble having real conversations over a teleconferencing solution? That's a management failure. "Lunchroom conversat…

Just shifting from face to face to video conferencing won't cut it. You need to be efficient communicator in writing, which is harder to bullshit your through (or maybe requires different kind of bullshiting)

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#629

Post by Clubber »

grumblingdev wrote: post #446
diogenes4 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I'm guessing the most spoiled people in the world wouldn't be working at all. This sort of contempt is a very specific and odd attitude to have.

Imagine being an Amazon delivery driver. Monitoring to the extreme. Constant boring shit all day. Running up apartment stairs. Then imagine an office worker... It's a world of difference and puts things in perspective. People take things for granted too easily.

At the same time, that office worker has to take time out of their free time to get exercise while the Amazon driver gets paid to exercise on the job. There's a lot of health risk with not getting daily exercise.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#630

Post by jrsj »

yawgmoth wrote: post #620
jrsj wrote: post #613

[flagged]

The author is a furry. Being a furry is pretty common and I bet even more people would be willing to engage with it if it weren't for comments like this.

ehhh...I think it only seems common because it's amplified by the internet. Still, it's weird, many are perverts, and I don't really think most people want business advice from someone who's basically announcing to the world that they jerk off to cartoon animals
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