Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It • Hacker News Board

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#351

Post by greedo » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

loteck wrote: post #295

grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

Proprietary telepresence systems have been around for a long time and they are good enough for keeping international relations going between country's governments, so they probably would be good enough for your company. They are more expensive than you might think they should be until you get into the engineering and understand what it takes to make it seamless and reliable. The question is, does your organization ac…

We had a Cisco conference setup for two joined conference rooms back in 2014? It was like $500K per site. It was terrible, picture quality was 1080i with bad sound, but something an exec would love cosplaying as a member of the NSC. The thing couldn't easily handle conferees using webcams etc. Got torn out when the support contract ended and converted into a traditional conference room.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#352

Post by lazide » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

cableshaft wrote: post #328

cogman10 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, as some companies are changing their remote work policies to be return-to-office, there seems to be a lot of resentment about this, and I don't really understand why. Remote work availability and pay were often much lower. Further, if you were in my company, you had HR and C-Levels saying "Remote work is here to stay and will never go away" early on and often. It wasn't until about a year in that they starte…

> "Remote work is here to stay and will never go away" early on and often. It wasn't until about a year in that they started changing their tune and gaslighting us with "we never said remote work was here to stay, where did you get such a silly idea?" Pretty much exactly this happened at my company. They started touting these new offices they got for a steal, but in the all-hands said "our company has never required…

If it’s not in writing, it ‘never happened’ - and even then, make sure you have a copy they can’t get at and know your odds of a successful prosecution under the law (and your ability and willingness to see it through).

Because sometimes that will be required.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#353

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

reaperman wrote: post #182

andrewmutz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prior to COVID, everyone understood that remote work was supported by some companies and not others. It was also a type of work that was preferred by some employees and not others. As a result, everyone peacefully self-selected into their preferred employment relationships. Companies got the type of workforce they wanted and workers chose the type of environment they wanted. It was great. Today, as some companies are…

> the company has no obligation to keep an employee working in a remote context that the company doesn't favor anymore. Some people who were hired in as permanent remote, now are being demanded to sell their homes and move to cities they’ve never been to before. Companies have no obligation to keep any USA-based employee working (other countries may have different laws), but some reasonable severance payouts would be…

> Some people who were hired in as permanent remote, now are being demanded to sell their homes and move to cities they’ve never been to before.

No one is forcing you to sell your home. You could rent your home and move temporarily until you find a suitable remote replacement.

Or, you could just quit outright.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#354

Post by ahallock » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

I'm torn. While I think there are benefits to working from home -- no time wasted on a commute, more quiet, less stress -- it's a little bit unfair to those who must work on-site by necessity. There's also a social aspect of hanging out with co-workers that you'll never get over video chat.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#355

Post by mongol » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

What I have noticed after a few years of hybrid work is that I have less strong bonds with my colleagues. I feel more lonely, more isolated. Every day I work from home is convenient and comfortable. I can sleep in, save time in commutes etc. But I miss the camaraderie I used to have. I am only an anecdote in my own life, but I miss some things with office work that is not about working in an office and more about working together.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#356

Post by mc32 » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #291

mc32 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some or many people are just as productive working from home, but also many are not and are more productive in an office environment. There need to be better more reliable ways of measuring this and affording those who are able to be productive while remote the option. Those who aren’t as productive WFH don’t get the choice.

> also many are not and are more productive in an office environment I see this assertion every time the WFH/RTO topic is brought up, but there's never any data to back it up. Mind changing that?

Ultimately only people's immediate managers have insight into this either from managing them or from their co-workers. People eventually will let you know who isn't pulling their weight (obviously people will forgive others if they know they have a temporary issue in their life --but not if its unwarranted).

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#357

Post by throwaway5959 » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:37 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #294

throwaway5959 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTO doesn’t really work if five people are back in the office.

You see how that’s inherently about putting the preferences of the 5 people *above* the preferences of the rest of the office, yes?

People are allowed to have different preferences and lifestyles than the majority. I’m not a CEO so it’s not my place to decide what a company does or doesn’t do.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#358

Post by yellow_lead » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

shortcake27 wrote: post #159

tschellenbach wrote: post #87

The discussion here tends to ignore the posts about people working multiple jobs or not working 40 hours a week remotely. Can't have your cake and eat it too

If you’re more concerned with how long a software engineer sits in front of a computer, opposed to the work they actually get done, you’ve already lost. Edit: if you’re going to downvote me that’s fine, but please explain why “number of hours spent at computer” is at all a useful metric. It’s a genuine question; I’m not being facetious. I’ll get nothing done all day then wake up in the middle of the night with the so…

Software is a creative process that requires brain effort. You can't always force progress. Work also happens when we aren't in the chair.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#359

Post by alex_lav » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

sebstefan wrote: post #266

throwaway5959 wrote: post #204

Spare me. If someone is willing to pay someone $500k per year as I’m sure someone like the author is able to get, if the CEO wants them in the office three days a week, so be it. It’s stupid, everyone knows it’s stupid, I agree with the author on that, but tech workers sound _incredibly_ entitled when they write pieces like this. There are people making 1/5th what the author is making and somehow surviving in VHCOL a…

Or they can find another CEO that'll pay them $500k per year and not ask them to be in the office three days a week

If they can, they should! This is true for all things related to employment.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#360

Post by kortex » Mon, Oct 02, 2023, 4:38 PM UTC

Tainnor wrote: post #300

I understand the sentiment (I also now enjoy doing WFH, even though it took me a while to get used to it), but this post comes off as whiny and entitled. A C-level executive making some sort of change without any good reason always sucks, but one should really know better than to call the CEO of one's previous company an asshole in public. It's unprofessional and will reflect badly on you. Plus, the advice about neve…

Going from hybrid - pre-covid, and hiring as such - to 100% onsite is an asshole move and should be called out as such.

> apparent contradiction

I don't understand what you mean. Where's the contradiction? OP saying "never take an ultimatum" isn't absolute - there's an implied "in your best interest" there. If a cop tells you "freeze or I'll shoot!" do you ignore that ultimatum? Of course not, context matters. Obviously an H1B trying to support a family is going to most likely choose to comply with the ultimatum in the best interest of their quality of life. It's just unfortunate they have far less negotiation room.