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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#291

Post by falcolas »

mc32 wrote: post #75
x86x87 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not only about before pandemic remote workers. Once people enjoyed the flexibility they aren't going back.

Some or many people are just as productive working from home, but also many are not and are more productive in an office environment. There need to be better more reliable ways of measuring this and affording those who are able to be productive while remote the option. Those who aren’t as productive WFH don’t get the choice.

> also many are not and are more productive in an office environment

I see this assertion every time the WFH/RTO topic is brought up, but there's never any data to back it up. Mind changing that?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#293

Post by harvey9 »

throwaway290 wrote: post #13
Two9A wrote: post #3

This is one aspect of the RTO discussion that's sometimes missed: there are plenty of people in the tech sphere (myself included) who've been comfortably remote for much longer than those who were pushed into remote work by lockdowns and pandemic response. We're not about to give up a whole lifestyle we've built over (in some cases) decades, on the whim of whichever executive we happen to be serving under at the pres…

Been remote for 15 years, recently started full time job, love going to office. No strict work hours but I come anyway, nice to chat with colleagues (and much more productive than those tedious calls or text chats). Also I was already making myself leave home at least daily for physical activity, so if I'm out why not travel to the office? There's a nice coffeeshop near there. Also the chair is comfy enough, desk is…

You've made a reasonable proposal. But the writer of the blog wasn't offered anything so reasonable and that's why they're mad.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#294

Post by ncallaway »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #210
ncallaway wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but RTO is about… forcing the preference for in person work on everyone.

RTO doesn’t really work if five people are back in the office.

You see how that’s inherently about putting the preferences of the 5 people *above* the preferences of the rest of the office, yes?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#295

Post by loteck »

grumblingdev wrote: post #20

Video conf still sucks. It's literally the same as 10 years ago. Does anyone have a workplace where it is really seamless, high resolution, and just works? Or is using any of these new technologies? Maybe VR will help... But not being in-person for collaboration/morale is miles apart. I wonder if employees would personally cover the cost of a one week meetup once per month if their other option was move city and offi…

Proprietary telepresence systems have been around for a long time and they are good enough for keeping international relations going between country's governments, so they probably would be good enough for your company. They are more expensive than you might think they should be until you get into the engineering and understand what it takes to make it seamless and reliable.

The question is, does your organization actually know the value of communication between remote parties? Companies that actually run the numbers on the value of remote collaboration can pretty easily figure out if it's worth it.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#296

Post by throwaway9191aa »

scottLobster wrote: post #192
hotnfresh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chat’s my favorite. Leaves a record so you don’t have to take notes or immediately record whatever you talked about so you don’t forget. Screen sharing or pairing are better remote than in person. In person’s good for a subset of types of meetings that some folks may find themselves in a lot. Brainstorming, product ideation, that kind of thing. > In the office I just walk over to their desk. This is from the perspect…

You seem to have missed my point that all of those options require someone to actually be at their workstation and available. With WFH, half the time people aren't. In the office they are. If WFH is going to be the future, then there should be uptime requirements with associated penalties so that someone is as available as they would be in the office. Software development is a team sport, you don't get to walk off th…

> In the office they are.

lol what are they doing? Staring at the ceiling? What makes them always available in the office and not always available at home? How is this still a thing being discussed? Perhaps, at home, they are actually able to get some work done.

Again, this is my office. I'm sure there are some offices where people legitimately aren't doing much of anything at home. Statistically, that just has to be true. Maybe this is the wrong company?

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#297

Post by tiffanyh »

Tax Abatement

What doesn't get discussed enough is the huge financial incentives that cities give to corporations to attract big businesses.

Those incentives (like no corporate taxes for 10-years) are based on companies literally having people physically in-office.

Cities don't want corporations to move "on paper" their HQ.

Cities want the economy benefits of more local jobs, which equals more income & home taxes that follow.

So cities structure corp incentives to having people physically in-office that way it aligns their interests with the corp interest.

As such, companies are forced to bring people back into the office as a result to maintain those tax incentives.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#298

Post by DSMan195276 »

andrewmutz wrote: post #149
Two9A wrote: post #3

This is one aspect of the RTO discussion that's sometimes missed: there are plenty of people in the tech sphere (myself included) who've been comfortably remote for much longer than those who were pushed into remote work by lockdowns and pandemic response. We're not about to give up a whole lifestyle we've built over (in some cases) decades, on the whim of whichever executive we happen to be serving under at the pres…

Prior to COVID, everyone understood that remote work was supported by some companies and not others. It was also a type of work that was preferred by some employees and not others. As a result, everyone peacefully self-selected into their preferred employment relationships. Companies got the type of workforce they wanted and workers chose the type of environment they wanted. It was great. Today, as some companies are…

> there seems to be a lot of resentment about this, and I don't really understand why.

You don't understand why people don't want to have to go job hunting to keep a WFH position?

It's one thing to say "this is fine, get over it", it's another to say "I don't understand why people are resentful", I think that second part is pretty obvious.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#299

Post by greedo »

grumblingdev wrote: post #31
TerrifiedMouse wrote: post #11

There are so many “habits” left over from industrial work. On an assembly line everyone needed to be in sync but this generally isn’t true for most office work. You need to be present at the factory to do the work, hasn’t been true for office work for awhile now. Yet we still operate synchronously. Everyone commutes through traffic/crowded public transport and risk catching the latest novel virus, to arrive at work a…

> an assembly line Now imagine working on an assembly line on your feet all day versus your office day job. The people on the assembly line would look at you like the most spoilt people in the world. I personally hated going into the office, but the morale effect is real. I think the main thing is people cannot be trusted to honestly tell you if they work better from the office. It's a nicer life working from home bu…

The morale effect might be real for you, but for a large group of workers, their morale has improved since WFH. On my team of 24, only one chooses to work in the office...

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#300

Post by Tainnor »

I understand the sentiment (I also now enjoy doing WFH, even though it took me a while to get used to it), but this post comes off as whiny and entitled.

A C-level executive making some sort of change without any good reason always sucks, but one should really know better than to call the CEO of one's previous company an asshole in public. It's unprofessional and will reflect badly on you.

Plus, the advice about never taking an ultimatum is... weird. The author doesn't even seem to notice the apparent contradiction between stating this and them later commenting on immigrants not being able to be as picky.

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