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Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

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Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#201

Post by makestuff »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #142

Unpopular opinion but people under appreciate seeing the humanity of their coworkers especially in reducing conflict. It’s so easy especially for coders (and I imagine other knowledge workers) to get into flame wars debating things when you’re only typing things out. Video calls help a little but not everyone wants to turn on their cameras and it’s easy to eventually get used to seeing people as mere tiles in a scree…

Yeah, everyone can act tough over email/slack, but when you see them in person it is alot easier to sympathize with people.

I was all for WFH at the start of the pandemic, it was awesome. I have switched my feelings on it to realize that 3x per week is a good compromise. I get the commercial real estate conspiracy, which I am sure has some impact on it, but I also think a lot of people have a similar view that I do. I don't think my view is revolutionary that in office collaboration has tangible benefits.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#203

Post by jedberg »

ramraj07 wrote: post #34

If I start a company tomorrow, this is what I would want to do: 1. Hire within a general metropolitan area (2 hour commute max). 2. WFH for 28 days a month. 3. 2 days a month the entire org convenes in a ballroom or something and works together, have some progress reports, happy hours and hackathons. In this model, everyone’s remote most of the time. Yet everyone gets FaceTime with each other IrL. Seed ideas and brai…

You're throwing away the biggest advantage for the company allowing remote work -- hiring talent from anywhere. WFH has a lot of advantages for employees, but also for the employer. The main one being a diverse workforce.

What I've seen work, which I think still hits your goals of occasional face time, is to have a quarterly offsite for the whole company. Everyone works remotely, but once a quarter you find a nice location that is easy for everyone to get to, pay for their flights and hotels (and if you're really nice, their family too, or at least child care at home while they are gone), and then have a couple of days of quarterly planning, hacking sprints, and general social activities that don't involve alcohol or strenuous physical activity (but if people want to organize that for themselves they are welcome to do so).

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#204

Post by throwaway5959 »

Spare me. If someone is willing to pay someone $500k per year as I’m sure someone like the author is able to get, if the CEO wants them in the office three days a week, so be it. It’s stupid, everyone knows it’s stupid, I agree with the author on that, but tech workers sound _incredibly_ entitled when they write pieces like this.

There are people making 1/5th what the author is making and somehow surviving in VHCOL areas.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#205

Post by RussianCow »

andrewmutz wrote: post #149
Two9A wrote: post #3

This is one aspect of the RTO discussion that's sometimes missed: there are plenty of people in the tech sphere (myself included) who've been comfortably remote for much longer than those who were pushed into remote work by lockdowns and pandemic response. We're not about to give up a whole lifestyle we've built over (in some cases) decades, on the whim of whichever executive we happen to be serving under at the pres…

Prior to COVID, everyone understood that remote work was supported by some companies and not others. It was also a type of work that was preferred by some employees and not others. As a result, everyone peacefully self-selected into their preferred employment relationships. Companies got the type of workforce they wanted and workers chose the type of environment they wanted. It was great. Today, as some companies are…

Many companies did a bait and switch, though. They made grand promises of remote and/or hybrid work being a first class citizen moving forward, then did a hard 180 and asked everyone to start coming into the office every day. Understandably, some people are upset about this, especially those hired remotely.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#206

Post by sdfghswe »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #53

I’ll know this “counter argument” isn’t bullshit when people finally admit they know full well a large portion of people abuse WFH. Until I see honesty on this, I am uninterested. No one ever admits: - I basically work 20-30 hours a week! - They have no idea when I’m actually working. - I was going to quit but I’m going to let them just keep paying me. - I have at least one side job and I won’t be able to do it if I…

Yup. I find it astonishing to here on HN that people "don't understand why execs want RTO" while at the same time admitting that they do chores during work hours.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#207

Post by afavour »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #157
afavour wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> silly to assume everyone has the same preference I don't see the OP assuming that. Not everyone enjoyed it but for those of use who did going back is not desirable.

> Once people enjoyed the flexibility they aren't going back. This was the line I was directly responding to.

I don’t read that as “everyone enjoyed the flexibility”, I read it as “the people who enjoyed the flexibility aren’t going back”

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#208

Post by grogenaut »

variants wrote: post #50
throwaway290 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been remote for 15 years, recently started full time job, love going to office. No strict work hours but I come anyway, nice to chat with colleagues (and much more productive than those tedious calls or text chats). Also I was already making myself leave home at least daily for physical activity, so if I'm out why not travel to the office? There's a nice coffeeshop near there. Also the chair is comfy enough, desk is…

As someone who works hands on so I have to work at the office I really wish more people fight to stay home, the commute was so much nicer with people working remote plus the office was much nicer to work in without all the noise and distractions

I agree with this but the obvious outcome is that if you're 1 person in a 200 person office floor, your company will consolidate 200 floors into one and it'll get noisy again. The same cost function still exists for office space.

I'm very with you on the commutes tho. I live in Seattle and Mondays and Fridays are like driving on Thanksgiving (a major holiday in the US when no one drives and even the roads in L.A. are clear), and Tuesday is worse than the before times. Wed/Thurs are a bit better than the before times though so I just go in on those days (that's also when we tend to have happy hours).

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#209

Post by wholesomepotato »

ramon156 wrote: post #6

This post both says "I was most important at the company" And "I was easily dismissed". Can a CEO really be that disconnected from their company?

Top corporate leadership nowadays is paid ridiculous money while 90% of the time being out of touch clowns. It's just a clique riding on easy money and general societal incompetence period, circle of connections self-justifying their salaries. Notably: lots of exceptions, usually ones that built the company themselves or worked there for decades.

Re: Return to Office Is Bullshit and Everyone Knows It

#210

Post by throwaway5959 »

ncallaway wrote: post #119
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed the flexibility of WFH but I still prefer working with local teams in the office. There are pros and cons to both, but it's silly to assume everyone has the same preference as you just because your preference is strongly held. This is my response to both your comment and TFA. There is less consensus on this topic than the very-vocal WFH crowd would have you believe. I know plenty of other talented engineers…

Sure, but RTO is about… forcing the preference for in person work on everyone.

RTO doesn’t really work if five people are back in the office.
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