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OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

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Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#211

Post by taway1237 »

mardifoufs wrote: post #201
taway1237 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reasons don't hold for me, because my country is friendly with USA and (currently) openly hostile to Russia. The same holds for most of the western world, so likely most of the HN readers. Nothing irrational in avoiding software controlled by your (country's) enemy. There is also the emotional aspect that you dismiss. Using somebody's products, and especially paying for them, can be constructed as helping th…

Yes but that completely removes the weird moral high ground that some want to set. If you don't mind supporting an aggressor and an invader as long as they are not invading or attacking you, that's understandable in a way. I mean the US benefits Europe greatly. But crying (not saying you do that!) about whataboutism won't suddenly wash out that moral relativism and the precedent that was set 20 years ago. Obviously p…

I... think I agree. Thanks for your calm and reasonable response.

>If you don't mind supporting an aggressor and an invader as long as they are not invading or attacking you (...)

I do mind, but sadly I (my country) has to support someone and the US is (IMO) the "least bad" option. More about that later.

I'm not ashamed to say that I care about the war in Russia more than other wars for mostly selfish reasons [1]:

* It's much easier for me to connect and empathise with people from another European country then with people from a distant culture (irrational reason)

* It impacts me and my country much more directly (rational reason)

* Countries need allies. Unfortunately it's necessary to side with at least one superpower. And it's politically wise to overlook friendly superpower crimes while loudly criticising enemy's. To clarify: in my opinion US is the "least evil" option, and the Russian state is the most harmful - but I'm obviously biased here as an European.

>It just goes to show that Europeans/westerners don't care about Iraqis, and they care about Ukrainians

100%. Funny you mention that, I wanted to bring it up as an example for my previous paragraph and then noticed the second part of your message. I understand the frustration of all the victims of recent wars and aggressions who suffered the same and the world largely stood back (at best, loudly condemned the attack and the news cycle moved on). No point in gaslighting them that their suffering was less important or less significant then Ukrainians.

[1] Of course I won't say this publicly. It's easy to misunderstand or intentionally misrepresent my message as a support for Russian invasion or worse. No point in harming my future career by saying one word too much.

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#212

Post by arghwhat »

siva7 wrote: post #104
arghwhat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post is out of date. As of August, it developed by a Latvian company ultimately owned by a Singaporean holding company (Onlyoffice Capital Group Pte. Ltd). The Russian market is served by a fork called P7-Office. I cannot say if there are still indirect ties to Russia, but the direct ones appear fully severed?

The information is still correct. Moving your headquarters is a pretty old trick to circumvent state sanctions (while leaving a good chunk of operations in the sanctioned country as an example) and doesn't fly with checking institutions.

The headquarters have always been in Latvia and UK, what has changed is the owner.

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#213

Post by [deleted] »

laurent123456 wrote: post #204
siva7 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how i would have acted in their toes but i think i would still be held morally responsible if i just say that politics is none of my business because i'm the head of a software shop while my country is trying to annex a neighbour.

When the US illegally invaded Iraq, if I remember well people's reaction was to rename French fries to Freedom fries. I don't remember any business condemning the war.

[deleted]

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#215

Post by arghwhat »

sogjis wrote: post #108
arghwhat wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post is out of date. As of August, it developed by a Latvian company ultimately owned by a Singaporean holding company (Onlyoffice Capital Group Pte. Ltd). The Russian market is served by a fork called P7-Office. I cannot say if there are still indirect ties to Russia, but the direct ones appear fully severed?

Beneficial is citizen of Russia https://company.lursoft.lv/en/ascensio-system/40103265308

Unless the Singaporean entity uses its funds in a pro-russian manner, I'd consider this fairly isolated.

Sanctions against Russia exist to hurt Russian economy and trade to punish and limit their war capacity. If the money stays outside and does not support the war, then I do not see an issue with a Russian citizen living abroad having an indirect controlling stake.

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#216

Post by kfjdskjf »

throwaway65546 wrote: post #177
malermeister wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which were invasions, your point being?

They are part of a wider context of a war they did not initiate, often in occupied territories, fighting alongside the native People of said territories (eg. Siegfried Line campaign, Invasion of [German occupied] Elba, Allied invasion of [German occupied] Italy, [German occupied] Normandy landings, Operation Overlord, Battle of [German occupied] Marseille.)

[flagged]

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#217

Post by another2another »

mardifoufs wrote: post #194
walteweiss wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes and if you lived in Iraq you would probably have said the same. Whats your point? You are basically saying that it's worse because it's closer to you?

The difference is actually quite stark. Iraq didn't need a massive reconstruction effort at the end of the war.

Russia, on the other hand has levelled whole cities to dust, de-populated them and forced millions to flee as refugees because they deliberately target civilians as a matter of policy. They also torture and execute important local political figures where they occupy and immediately start their sinister policy of 'Russification'.

We see this in the west (and most of the rest of the world), and naturally despise the perpetrators.

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#219

Post by ElectricalUnion »

stonogo wrote: post #140
ElectricalUnion wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A normal user interface would guide you away from using CSV in the first place. In almost all situations where one could use CSV, a better, more structured, more standards-compliant, more optimized file format (like a SQLite database) would be a better choice.

In situations where people are opening a CSV file in an office-suite spreadsheet app, they probably didn't generate the data themselves. Lecturing them about how their spreadsheet should have been a database isn't likely to help, and describing SQLite's file format, which is well-documented but not a standard, as "more standards-compliant" than a file format with an actual RFC is bordering on ridiculous.

The Library of Congress, an agency of the legislative branch of the U.S. government thinks that SQLite3 [1] is a acceptable database format.

The Library of Congress has a small amount of SQLite files in its collections.

The Library of Congress also cites CSV [2], Comma Separated Values, as strictly specified in RFC 4180 as a acceptable dataset format. No other types of free-form CSV that aren't variants compliant with 4180 are accepted, and it also says that documentation and metadata needs to be supplied with additional separated archives in supported data formats.

The Library of Congress has 0 CSVs in its collections, and as a result no experience actually handling it.

I believe that if a widespread format such as CSVs have 0 files added to a reasonably well known and encompassing collection of human artifacts related to culture even with its ubiquity, it's a telltale sign that it isn't a standard at all.

[1] https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/fdd/fdd0004...

[2] https://www.loc.gov/preservation/digital/formats/fdd/fdd0003...

Re: OnlyOffice: Free open source office suite with business productivity tools

#220

Post by mardifoufs »

another2another wrote: post #217
mardifoufs wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and if you lived in Iraq you would probably have said the same. Whats your point? You are basically saying that it's worse because it's closer to you?

The difference is actually quite stark. Iraq didn't need a massive reconstruction effort at the end of the war. Russia, on the other hand has levelled whole cities to dust, de-populated them and forced millions to flee as refugees because they deliberately target civilians as a matter of policy. They also torture and execute important local political figures where they occupy and immediately start their sinister poli…

You have got to be joking. I'm sorry but what? Iraq has barely recovered as we speak. The infrastructure still hasn't recovered. Compare Kyiv to Baghdad or even Kherson to Fallujah and yeah, Iraq got pretty destroyed all right.

By the way the US sure did target civilians, they just labeled them militants. Drone strike collateral damage etc. Do you think Russians also don't use euphemisms? Again, even if Iraq was not destroyed or civilians weren't deliberately and openly targeted, it has nothing to do with my point.

We saw a war caused by literal lies and imperialism lead to 1 million total deaths and we don't despise the citizens of the invading country. And you obviously downplay the war in Iraq because you were far removed from it (from the perspective of the Iraqis I mean). Obviously you feel more connected to Ukraine and Ukrainians but it's no reason to downplay or white wash the Iraq war by rationalizing and giving the benefit of the doubt to "our side"

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