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Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

nltimes.nl

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Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#91

Post by Muromec »

userbinator wrote: post #12

There's probably a huge cultural difference here, but the image there sure does not look like a 30km/h street to me --- more like a 30mph one. That said, I've seen pictures of other European streets, far narrower and meandering, where even 30km/h would seem too fast. It is also launching a campaign with the slogan: “We drive 30 for each other.” Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious.

Of course it is. Labor party together with green left are in charge of city council.

Middle class loves socialism.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#92

Post by okokwhatever »

pjc50 wrote: post #62
okokwhatever wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It´s like mixing pedestrians with heavy construction machines. Wouldn´t be better to separate both of them for the good of everyone? I mean, not everyone has the possibility of walking a couple of streets to buy a cappuccino and then take an elevator to the office. Try having kids in a city today and then let's talk.

In Amsterdam you just take the kids to school in the bakfiets.

Again Amsterdam. Amsterdam is just an example for Amsterdam. Try this in Rome, Buenos Aires, Mexico DC and lets talk again mate. The problem, the real one, is we have cities not prepared for this generation

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#93

Post by Muromec »

okokwhatever wrote: post #55
stinos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious. The science as well, the dependency between impact veolocity and severity of injury and risk of survival of pedestrians and cyclists is fairly well studied and known. the image there sure does not look like a 30km/h street to me I've been there (or somewhere in Amsterdam where it looks exactly the same) and at peak hour 50km/h passing by a crowded bicycle path whi…

It´s like mixing pedestrians with heavy construction machines. Wouldn´t be better to separate both of them for the good of everyone? I mean, not everyone has the possibility of walking a couple of streets to buy a cappuccino and then take an elevator to the office. Try having kids in a city today and then let's talk.

The school is usually about 500 meters from the door too, so either you walk or kids cycle too (spoiled ones get hauled in a bakfiets of course).

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#94

Post by hgomersall »

thejackgoode wrote: post #69
warrenmiller wrote: post #15

This is wonderful. remember : Cities aren't noisy, Cars are noisy.

Also, sirens are noisy and nobody even talks about regulating them adequately

In the UK, hearing a siren is exceptionally rare. AFAICT, they overwhelmingly prefer lights only, saving sirens for a narrow set of circumstances.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#95

Post by okokwhatever »

pjc50 wrote: post #87
okokwhatever wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airbnb is rubbing hands.

That's probably going to end up banned as well, as it was in New York, in order to let people live in the city.

Something inside me tells this won't happen everywhere. Real people with problems to pay rent and buy a house cannot afford (like us) live in the center of a city anymore and wont be in the near future. Mandating 30kph everywhere will make people more and more resistant to live in the cities moving out and leaving the center for the hipsters with their avocado toasts. This is gentrification.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#96

Post by Muromec »

okokwhatever wrote: post #78
irdc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious. Seeing as the social democratic[0] PvdA is currently the largest political party in the Amsterdam city council[1], with the greens a close second, that's all in line with what the people of Amsterdam want. This is Europe. Socialism isn't a scare word here. If anything, it's a rallying cry. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy 1. https://en.wikipedia…

Airbnb is rubbing hands.

Airbnb is regulated to hell too.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#98

Post by RektBoy »

badcppdev wrote: post #52

I think it's really funny how humans can't help but use round numbers. 30 kph = 18.64 mph 20 mph = 32.19 kph So safety rules around the world are based on arbitrary length systems. I'm all for lower speed limits for safety but I feel there is still things to be worked out in suburban settings where long arterial(?) roads carry large amounts of traffic in large cities.

What do you mean, one system is SI units and other is, ehm how to put it kindly, weird for weird people.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#99

Post by Muromec »

nvm0n2 wrote: post #88
irdc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious. Seeing as the social democratic[0] PvdA is currently the largest political party in the Amsterdam city council[1], with the greens a close second, that's all in line with what the people of Amsterdam want. This is Europe. Socialism isn't a scare word here. If anything, it's a rallying cry. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy 1. https://en.wikipedia…

Maybe you should ask some older eastern Europeans what they think about socialism, before haughtily speaking for everyone who lives in Europe. Socialism and its national variant wrecked Europe in the 20th century. People celebrated when it ended. To call it a rallying cry given that history is quite gross.

You will end being very confused if you do ask.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#100

Post by nvm0n2 »

pjc50 wrote: post #70
ricardobayes wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish they would actually explain some of the decisions - I think everyone would understand and even perhaps advocate and wish for changes like this, instead of immediate pushback. Even in the most transparent of places, I don't really see decisionmakers explaining their decisions.

No they wouldn't. We're deep into post-evidence politics. In all these cases the decisions have been explained, in the normal place, but that's too boring to share on social media so nobody hears it.

The decisions haven't really been explained by the standards of explanation you might expect for such a move, at least not everywhere.

In Wales the official explanation is: Welsh ministers said a 20mph (32km/h) limit would reduce deaths and noise and encourage people to walk or cycle [1]. Drakeford elaborated by saying "It's going to take you a minute longer to make your journey, and we will save 10 people's lives in Wales every year as a result of that one minute contribution - it doesn't seem an unfair bargain".

This explanation is nonsensical:

1. It could just as well apply to a limit of 5mph, or 10mph, or banning cars completely. It explains the desire to lower the limit but not the choice of 20mph vs 30mph.

2. The claim is that it adds a "minute longer" to make your journey, a clearly confabulated number. Not all journeys are the same and lowering the speed limit nationally will clearly be a scaling factor to your journey time, not a constant minute regardless of distance.

3. The justification is a 100% subjective feeling that "it doesn't seem unfair". This isn't an explanation, just an emotion.

When politicians serve up gibberish explanations, people tend to split down the middle. One half will assume that politicians are just being really stupid. Others will say that nobody can be that stupid, so there must be some alternative agenda at work.

Certainly this looks to people like "post-evidence politics" albeit not in the way you probably imagine.

It doesn't help that these people are socialists who have a long history of presenting one explanation for their policies whilst actually having another. When they're in friendly territory they tend to talk about how much they strongly desired things like enforced equality of outcomes, degrowth and reducing CO2 emissions, but they never talk about pedestrian safety. So when they impose policies that will clearly have the effect of reducing growth and car usage, but justify it with some new cause they hardly talked about before, it doubles up suspicion again.

BTW the 20mph limit didn't appear in any manifesto. More people have now signed a petition against it than voted Labour in the first place. So they can't claim these policies are popular or democratic.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-66774379

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