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Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

nltimes.nl

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Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#61

Post by ricardobayes »

matsemann wrote: post #26
anonymousDan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I moved a short distance in London to an area that is all 20mph and for me the most noticeable change is the reduction in noise levels (the limits in the previous area were generally 30mph). The new area feels so much more peaceful. It surprised me how much difference a 10mph drop makes.

It's also surprising how much safer that little speed change is for pedestrians/cyclists if they were to get hit. https://www.nullvisjonen-agder.no/images/grafikk/dodsrisiko-... Speed in km/h vs death rate. From about 10% death (90% survival) at 30 km/h (~18mph) to about 80% death (only 20% survival!) at 50 km/h (~31 mph)

I wish they would actually explain some of the decisions - I think everyone would understand and even perhaps advocate and wish for changes like this, instead of immediate pushback.

Even in the most transparent of places, I don't really see decisionmakers explaining their decisions.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#62

Post by pjc50 »

okokwhatever wrote: post #55
stinos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious. The science as well, the dependency between impact veolocity and severity of injury and risk of survival of pedestrians and cyclists is fairly well studied and known. the image there sure does not look like a 30km/h street to me I've been there (or somewhere in Amsterdam where it looks exactly the same) and at peak hour 50km/h passing by a crowded bicycle path whi…

It´s like mixing pedestrians with heavy construction machines. Wouldn´t be better to separate both of them for the good of everyone? I mean, not everyone has the possibility of walking a couple of streets to buy a cappuccino and then take an elevator to the office. Try having kids in a city today and then let's talk.

In Amsterdam you just take the kids to school in the bakfiets.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#63

Post by dagw »

shortcake27 wrote: post #39
eb0la wrote: post #32

I wonder if car manufacturers are working with this limitations in mind. I feel cars with combustion engines suffer at 20-30 km/h but electrics seems to be okay with that. Am I right?

What do you mean by suffer? I’ve never had any problem driving at any speed in any car apart from crawling (1-2km/h) in a manual.

Current petrol engines are designed operate at optimal efficiency in the 60-90 km/h range. Electric cars on the other hand can operate efficiently at much lower speeds due to how electric engines work.

Efficiency here primarily refers to km/unit of energy. So if you care about minimising pollution in the city centres it's much better if all cars can drive either 70 km/h or not at all through city centres.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#64

Post by pjc50 »

okokwhatever wrote: post #36
KBme wrote: post #5

Yes! This will save at least 3 lives a year! Even one life counts!

Cities are not a place for me live anymore. Airbnb, Uber, Uber-eats, delivery robots, security cameras everywhere, gentrification, poverty... It's ok if you guys feel this is normal but for me it´s too much. Cities were vibrant places to share experiences that today are a complete mess of zombies taking pictures for the trendy social network. And this is just one more drop to make cities more soulless and "2030 ready…

This is a real "nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" argument.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#65

Post by okokwhatever »

warrenmiller wrote: post #15

This is wonderful. remember : Cities aren't noisy, Cars are noisy.

Cities arent noisy?? where do you live lucky mate? I feel you guys live in an echo chamber full of avocado toasts and cappuccinos. Cities are crowded places full of noise pollution produced by humans being humans. Thats all. If people require silence go to the deep country. Next step, everybody shut the f... up to not bother the Karens.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#66

Post by MandieD »

mcv wrote: post #40
matsemann wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also surprising how much safer that little speed change is for pedestrians/cyclists if they were to get hit. https://www.nullvisjonen-agder.no/images/grafikk/dodsrisiko-... Speed in km/h vs death rate. From about 10% death (90% survival) at 30 km/h (~18mph) to about 80% death (only 20% survival!) at 50 km/h (~31 mph)

I think this is by far the biggest reason for the preference for 30 km/h. Reduced noise and pollution are certainly nice, but killing far less people is huge.

It also gets people like me who are scared to ride a bike on the 50 km/h street to reconsider how they’re going to run to the grocery store to pick up stuff that can fit in a backpack, or to daycare.

I default to doing both on bike, because the convenience outweighs any safety concerns, now that my neighborhood (suburban Nürnberg) is all 30 km/h.

And my kid will be able to be more independent at age 10 than I was at 15 growing up in car-bound Texas.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#67

Post by Vinnl »

mcv wrote: post #4

The title makes it sound like streets in Amsterdam currently don't have a 30 km/h speed limit, and after December, they will all have a 30 km/h speed limit. The reality is that a lot of streets already have a 30 km/h speed limit, and have had them for years. It's been slowly expanding, and clearly will continue to expand even more. There will still be roads with higher speed limits, but their number will shrink. I ex…

IMO it's not just about reducing the severity of accidents, but also what the experience of sharing the road with cars is like. It's way less comfortable cycling somewhere when cars are passing by at 50 km/h, whereas 30 is way more doable.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#68

Post by rsynnott »

userbinator wrote: post #12

There's probably a huge cultural difference here, but the image there sure does not look like a 30km/h street to me --- more like a 30mph one. That said, I've seen pictures of other European streets, far narrower and meandering, where even 30km/h would seem too fast. It is also launching a campaign with the slogan: “We drive 30 for each other.” Not surprisingly, the socialism is blatantly obvious.

‘Socialism’ does not merely mean ‘doing something for the common good’.

Re: Amsterdam preparing to lower speed limit to 30 kilometers per hour

#70

Post by pjc50 »

ricardobayes wrote: post #61
matsemann wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also surprising how much safer that little speed change is for pedestrians/cyclists if they were to get hit. https://www.nullvisjonen-agder.no/images/grafikk/dodsrisiko-... Speed in km/h vs death rate. From about 10% death (90% survival) at 30 km/h (~18mph) to about 80% death (only 20% survival!) at 50 km/h (~31 mph)

I wish they would actually explain some of the decisions - I think everyone would understand and even perhaps advocate and wish for changes like this, instead of immediate pushback. Even in the most transparent of places, I don't really see decisionmakers explaining their decisions.

No they wouldn't. We're deep into post-evidence politics.

In all these cases the decisions have been explained, in the normal place, but that's too boring to share on social media so nobody hears it.

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