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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#431

Post by artursapek »

mlsu wrote: post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

I used to live half a block from the BQE in Brooklyn. Window sill always covered in layer of black dust. Never again.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#432

Post by artursapek »

badtension wrote: post #249
mlsu wrote: post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all", to put it mildly. We are so focused on climate change and greenhouse gases that we do not see a lot of other issues and may exacerbate some of them in the process of decarbonisation.

EVs rip through tires lol

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#433

Post by avalys »

matthewfcarlson wrote: post #361
wyre wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roads, utilities, emergency services…

Per mile, small urban roads were millions of usd a mile (see department of transports annual report and it varies by region). Maintenance is even worse. It’s the 5th highest expense for most cities (US census survey of local and state governments 2020). Of course the suburbs don’t make sense, you have a half mile of road out to a neighborhood and another half mile of street in the neighborhood itself. The percentage…

And without use from heavy trucks and huge volumes from city traffic, the roads in suburbs last for decades, what's your point?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#434

Post by ars »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #227
CharlieDigital wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobility; unfortunately, the public transit infrastructure in the US isn't that great and the sprawl means that cars have become a necessity. Many areas simply can't be served efficiently by transit.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

> If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

No we can't. It takes 30 minutes to get to the airport for me by car - even during rush hour, or 1.5 hours by express bus.

Or for a friend of mine - 40 minutes by car, or 2 hours by train + bus.

Sorry, but there's no fix you can apply to public transport that will fix this.

Public transport is also more expensive - I took a group to Washington D.C. by metro - it cost around 5x as much as driving did (we drove the next day) including paying for parking. And the metro was far far slower.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#435

Post by wizofaus »

yokem55 wrote: post #383
wizofaus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd only add "...because they're incredibly useful, AND government policy has consistently favoured such a mode of transport over all other alternatives". The amount spent by governments on maintaining road infrastructure dwarfs all other transport spending, the amount of land dedicated to parking and driving space is mindboggling, and of course the amount spent on ensuring the global oil industry has been able to re…

You aren't wrong that government support of automotive transport is immense. But that government support comes from decades of popular electoral support for those policies from all across of the political spectrum. Why? Because cars give people more convenient and independent transportation then just about any other mode. And people push their politicians and representatives to support that kind of transportation. If…

Sure, there's an element of that. But the idea that government policy has been primarily driven by what would produce the "best" outcome as far as transport options go that the population actually want is a little naive. And of course what we all want is convenience and comfort for ourselves while not having to deal with the downsides (or impossibility) of providing it for everyone.

I'm happy to accept the reality that currently we have no form of alternative transport technology that offers the same comfort & convenience of the car - but I also believe we'd've been better off in the long run if public spending hadn't been so grotesquely skewed in favour of that particular option - other technologies would have had a better chance to come to the fore (e.g. why have e-bikes/e-scooters taken so long to become popular - there's no particular reason I know of they couldn't have been a big part of our transport network 20 or 30 years ago), we could have laid out our cities so we didn't need to travel such huge distances on a regular basis (vs, e.g. occasional long-distance travel between dense hubs where most facilities and services could be accessed via walking/cycling etc.), goods transportation could've been revolutionised by dedicated automated networks etc. etc. For me the most convincing argument that exists against the size (and reach) of government power that we've become accustomed to is that so many opportunities for a better balance of transportation options have been lost to a virtually single-minded focus by the powers-that-be over the last 70 or 80 years on private cars above all else.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#436

Post by Tostino »

maest wrote: post #393
sokoloff wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are selling, despite their high economic price, because they're incredibly useful . Make competing modes of transit at least one of more useful at no more cost or no less utility but at a lower cost and people will switch incredibly quickly. That's a tall order, because the modern automobile is a wonder of transport speed, comfort, and convenience.

> because the modern automobile is a wonder of transport speed, comfort, and convenience. It's also heavily subsidised and its cost does not include a signficant chunk of externalities. Also, this has been discussed to death, but a large chunk of car usage can be replaced by other modes of transportation. However, that transition requires upfront infrastructural investment. Sadly, arguments like yours ensure that inv…

Think of how differently the 20th century would have played out if we didn't have such a demand for oil.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#437

Post by brewdad »

wizofaus wrote: post #343
sokoloff wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are selling, despite their high economic price, because they're incredibly useful . Make competing modes of transit at least one of more useful at no more cost or no less utility but at a lower cost and people will switch incredibly quickly. That's a tall order, because the modern automobile is a wonder of transport speed, comfort, and convenience.

I'd only add "...because they're incredibly useful, AND government policy has consistently favoured such a mode of transport over all other alternatives". The amount spent by governments on maintaining road infrastructure dwarfs all other transport spending, the amount of land dedicated to parking and driving space is mindboggling, and of course the amount spent on ensuring the global oil industry has been able to re…

I’ve been looking at places for retirement where I can live car-free or at least very car-lite. There are very few places in the US where this will be possible in my lifetime. Absolutely, let’s more towards an EV future because that’s the best we’ll do in most people’s lifetimes but we can’t expect that change to fix what we’ve spent 100 years building. It needs to be seen as step one of many yet so many Americans are fighting against taking even that step.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#438

Post by brewdad »

bmitc wrote: post #405
jayd16 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not moving You mean like at a stop light or even a stop sign? A very common thing to be near in a city?

You mean when other cars are still moving? And what is your point, in general? Engines make noise. That's not under dispute.

EV “engines” don’t. Way to miss the point.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#439

Post by andsoitis »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #227
CharlieDigital wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobility; unfortunately, the public transit infrastructure in the US isn't that great and the sprawl means that cars have become a necessity. Many areas simply can't be served efficiently by transit.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

> But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

Personal modes of transport like cars and bicycles give you more degrees of freedom compared to public/shared modes with respect to:

a) space (can go to more places point to point)

b) time (travel any time)

c) privacy

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#440

Post by ehnto »

Kirby64 wrote: post #349
oatmeal1 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally agreed, but the noise from cars is mostly friction and turbulence (and honking/sirens). Switching to electric won't solve that.

The car noise problem is partially solved (or improved) by EVs, actually. The tires used on EVs tend to be efficient (low rolling resistance), which translates to less noisy tires. Additionally, their body shape tends to aim towards very aerodynamic so they have less turbulence noise. If they didn't do this, their efficiency would be much worse so it essentially becomes a necessity. It's pretty evident when you drive…

I think it is marginally reduced, definitely not solved. It also depends on the tires a consumer puts on their EV once it leaves the factory, and anything about 50kmph is still very noisy.

I think that is good in one aspect though, road noise is the only warning you get that an EV is approaching, which in a PED/Cylcing friendly city is important.

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