Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 635 posts

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#391

Post by burkaman »

Etheryte wrote: post #283
burkaman wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to see it, that's not an obvious conclusion to me. The health difference of an EV is a percentage increase in tire particles but a complete absence of tailpipe emissions. I would not expect tire particles to be the more significant factor, especially when the impacts of microplastics are so unknown. Tailpipe emissions are a significant problem ( https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/a…

I believe this [0] is the article (with discussion at [1]). To cherry-pick two quotes to contextualize what I recalled: > "Tires release 100 times the amount of volatile organic compounds as a modern tailpipe, says an analyst." > "Moreover, tire emissions from electric vehicles are 20 percent higher than those from fossil-fuel vehicles. EVs weigh more and have greater torque, which wears out tires faster." I'm not su…

Thanks, yeah this is pretty depressing. Feels almost unsolvable, I love public transit but I don't know how to make everyone else love it. Maybe we'll invent some perfect biodegradable tire, but it feels more likely that we'll just wall ourselves off and people (who can afford it) will drink filtered water and eat lab-grown meat and hydroponic produce to avoid ingesting their own pollution.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#392

Post by wyre »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #134
undersuit wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we can afford this now. In the context of "Tire Dust Makes Up the Majority of Ocean Microplastics" how long can we afford this? Just like dumping Freon, and CO2 into the atmosphere have long term consequences that require our society to change, how long can we go aerosolizing rubber?

I wonder how hard it would be to capture this with some kind of aero device in the wheel wells of vehicles. Given what F1 teams can do with aero, it doesn’t seem like a huge stretch to be able to suck up these particles at the source and pass them through a filter bag like a household vacuum or something.

I think the issue is the particles are from the friction of the road and to effectively collect the particles it would drastically reduce tire clearance, not an issue for F1, but for the consumer market tire clearance is important, for some reason.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#393

Post by maest »

sokoloff wrote: post #335
bmitc wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This sentiment is just contrarianism, I think. I really don't think it is. We're thrusting ourselves into just new problems. Yes, we move away from old problems that gas-powered cars have, but we move into new problems. For one, EVs perpetuate the idea of the car, which is perhaps the most dangerous part. Then, there's all sorts of new things like building out the infrastructure required for EVs and mining the new…

Cars are selling, despite their high economic price, because they're incredibly useful . Make competing modes of transit at least one of more useful at no more cost or no less utility but at a lower cost and people will switch incredibly quickly. That's a tall order, because the modern automobile is a wonder of transport speed, comfort, and convenience.

> because the modern automobile is a wonder of transport speed, comfort, and convenience.

It's also heavily subsidised and its cost does not include a signficant chunk of externalities.

Also, this has been discussed to death, but a large chunk of car usage can be replaced by other modes of transportation. However, that transition requires upfront infrastructural investment.

Sadly, arguments like yours ensure that investment won't happen. So, externalities will keep piling up, until the situation will get dire enough that 1. it can't be ignored anymore and 2. it's too late to meaningfully undo the damage.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#394

Post by HWR_14 »

badtension wrote: post #249
mlsu wrote: post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

That's why so many people are cautious about "EVs to save us all", to put it mildly. We are so focused on climate change and greenhouse gases that we do not see a lot of other issues and may exacerbate some of them in the process of decarbonisation.

EVs don't have to be heavier. If people mostly drove a low range EV it could use significantly smaller batteries.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#395

Post by wyre »

CableNinja wrote: post #76
undersuit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

Housing density, and radius of "walkable" to the average human. I live in a neighborhood full of small apartments, single level duplexes, and single family homes. What stores are walkable? The liquor store, and gas station, and if i really feel like it, dominos and 7-11, both of which are at least 1/4 mile one way. Most others in this area, dont get those even. Past that its about a mile one way to the actual grocery…

Why not ride an e-bike that one mile to the grocery store and go more often instead of needing to haul 50lbs in one trip.

Also, it’s the year 2023 it is easier than ever to get a tv delivered to your front door without you needing to haul it anywhere.

I’m ready for your excuses.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#396

Post by listenallyall »

midasuni wrote: post #346
sokoloff wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are selling, despite their high economic price, because they're incredibly useful . Make competing modes of transit at least one of more useful at no more cost or no less utility but at a lower cost and people will switch incredibly quickly. That's a tall order, because the modern automobile is a wonder of transport speed, comfort, and convenience.

Cars have such a low price because the cost of them is not born by the person purchasing them.

Are there any large-scale public transportation systems that aren't reliant on huge government subsidies?

London: 3.6b pounds https://www.google.com/search?q=london+tube+government+subsi...

New York: $7.2 billion https://new.mta.info/budget/MTA-operating-budget-basics

Amsterdam: 370m euros for 3 months service https://www.railjournal.com/financial/dutch-government-provi....

Ok, Hong Kong appears to turn a profit.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#397

Post by jayd16 »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #319
jayd16 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sentiment is just contrarianism, I think. I've lived in Los Angeles my whole life and the difference that clean air standards make is obvious. The black dust isn't just tire and brake dust. It's also soot and it used to be much much worse. Nothing is a silver bullet but I'll be much happier when we're done with ICE noise and exhaust.

Generally agreed, but the noise from cars is mostly friction and turbulence (and honking/sirens). Switching to electric won't solve that.

You can hear the difference with your own ears. Even if a freeway sounds the same, it's obviously different when an EV rolls through the alley or shared driveway vs an ICE car.

Not to mention the jerks intentionally making noise with loud engine mods but I guess there's no getting rid of them.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#398

Post by kylebenzle »

crazygringo wrote: post #371
kylebenzle wrote: post #15

I worked on a phd for 4 years looking into this problem indirectly and for a decade at Ohio State they have had working solutions to the tire dust issue but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get funding. A Billion dollar industry and NO ONE cares about cleaning it up if it means increasing costs by 5% or more. It has been WELL KNOWN for 50 years! We are basically aerosolizing carbon in MASSIVE amounts right where we live and work.…

> the solution is natural rubber, which costs slight more than synthetic rubber but lasts longer. So its better for consumers, cheaper all around, and 1,000x better for the environment Is it? I'm Googling but can't find any evidence for that. Natural rubber tires still produce tons of dust, I can't find any reference to it being less harmful in our lungs, and even natural tire rubber seems to biodegrade on the order…

One is a closed system, the other is dumping NEW carbon into the air. The simple accounting is:

Plant a seed that grows to a dry weight of 1 lb. That is basically 1 lb of carbon.

Turn that into 0.5 lb of rubber. Grind that rubber back down to carbon and we are back to where we started minus the waste.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#399

Post by jayd16 »

bmitc wrote: post #359
kwhitefoot wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People on the outside can hear it though.

I don't think they can unless the car is not moving. The point is: the dominating sound pollution from a car is from sources that are not removed in EVs.

> not moving

You mean like at a stop light or even a stop sign? A very common thing to be near in a city?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#400

Post by demondemidi »

coryrc wrote: post #270
demondemidi wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating two vastly different issues as part of pro-car propaganda. There is a drug epidemic AND there is a homeless crisis. Those have nothing to do with investing in public transportation. Your agenda is showing, lay off the NewsMax, my friend.

No, I lived this. I want to live where I can bicycle entirely (and mostly did, because transit is often dirty). I'm working toward spending a few years in Japan and later the Netherlands. But only because we can't have nice things in the USA. I'm not going to live where junkies own all public spaces and kids get stuck on needles and die.

HN rule require we take our peers' comments at face value.

Assuming your anecdote is 100% absolutely positively true and not made up at all, and that you actually saw kids get stuck with needles and die, here's the rub: your anecdote doesn't matter.

Your argument is literally: the solution to homeless and drug addiction is ... better manners?

Do you expect people to take you seriously?

Post reply on HN