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India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

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Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#101

My father knew he had a year, or two at most, left. On a sunny day in May 2020, he bought green Kairi mangoes, pickled them, and passed on his recipe. He made three batches to last at least 5-7 years. He passed away from NAFLD in 2021, but we have his memories and his handmade flavorful pickle. RIP wherever you are, Pops.

What a nice memory to have of him! If you don't mind, please share his recipe.

Well, as Keanu said "I know that the ones who love us, will miss us."; he was a good man. Here is his recipe.

This is for a small batch (around 1 KG), you can scale this accordingly.

Ingredients:

    1) Raw mangoes (Kairi): 5-6; washed, dried, and cut (retain skin, discard seed)
    2) Mustard oil: 1 cup
    3) Fenugreek (Methi), Fennel (Saunf), Mustard, Coriander seeds: 2 tbsp each, roasted and powdered
    4) Asafoetida (Hing): 1/2 tsp
    5) Salt: 3 tbsp (or to taste)
    6) Kalonji: 2 tbsp
    7) Turmeric: 1 tbsp
    8) Red chili powder: 2 tbsp
Method:

    1) Sterilise: Wash the jar and lid. Fill with water, boil for 5 minutes, then empty. Invert to dry.
    2) Roast & Grind: Dry roast fenugreek, fennel, mustard, and coriander seeds. Let cool, then powder.
    3) Mix: In a large bowl, combine mango pieces with spices, kalonji, chili powder, turmeric, asafoetida, and salt.
    4) Oil: Heat mustard oil until it smokes, then cool to lukewarm.
    5) Combine: Blend oil with the mango-spice mixture.
    6) Store: Transfer the mixture to your sterilised jar. Ensure mangoes are submerged, adding more cooled oil if needed.
    7) Ferment: Place the sealed jar in direct sunlight for a week.
    8) Serve: Ready in a week. Always use a dry spoon for serving. Store at room temperature up to a year, ensuring no moisture enters.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#102
post #79

Anyone have a recipe for the lemon they would enjoy sharing? I love pickle of all kinds, and my Meyers produce more fruit than I can handle, even sharing fresh lemons with friends. If I can also share some as preserves, that sounds like a fun way to continue the sharing.

Here's one that will make you long-lasting pickle. It involves an initial set of steps, a 6-7 day wait, and then another set of steps followed by another 6-7 day wait until you can eat them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeR99HCIAPA You can get the specific types of dried red chillies from most Indian stores. Here's an 'instant pickle' recipe, in english: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRosfCOEpzA

Thank you!

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#103
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, this is not the western idea of Pickle. > These are long lasting, chilli powder filled, Mustard powder based goodness, that is tasty throughout the year, filling and an absolute delight. Achar right? 'Pickle' is exactly what I'd (white British) call it, and vice versa not be surprised when it was what I was given. Maybe you're thinking of American 'dill pickle' (where the pickle stands for 'with pickled cucum…

It's true that Americans call pickled cucumbers "pickles", they are far and away the most common kind, but we're aware of what pickling is, and have pickled eggs, pickled radish, pickled beets, and while we don't refer to sauerkraut as pickled cabbage (we call it, well, sauerkraut), we do know that's what it is. We don't eat as much Branston pickle as Brits do, but it's available in most supermarkets.

I didn't mean to imply you don't, more that I'm aware of that ('a pickle') and can't speak with much certainty about what else is available.

My point was only supposed to be that I can't see what's wrong with 'pickle' as a translation. I don't think any Indian would hesitate to call picallili an achar at a glance (on tasting it they might find it unexpectedly mild, but certainly you can have mild achars).

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#105
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Achar is not a Persian loan word in Hindi. Just because it's similar to the Persian word doesn't mean it's a loan word. Ancient Persian (Avestan) and Sanskrit were extremely similar to each other (basically the same language). So there are many old concepts and ideas that have the same words in the two languages. Achar is one of them, it's possibly a much older word.

What is the Indo-Iranian etymology you are proposing? There is no attested word "achaara" referring to a pickle in any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several). The standard Sanskrit words for pickle have very clear analyses, i.e. avaleha ("licked down"). A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving". Whereas, there is a clearly related Persian word "achaar…

>any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several)

What are those Sanskrit dictionaries you checked? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want Sanskrit resources, since I know it some and am interested in it.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#106
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Achar is not a Persian loan word in Hindi. Just because it's similar to the Persian word doesn't mean it's a loan word. Ancient Persian (Avestan) and Sanskrit were extremely similar to each other (basically the same language). So there are many old concepts and ideas that have the same words in the two languages. Achar is one of them, it's possibly a much older word.

What is the Indo-Iranian etymology you are proposing? There is no attested word "achaara" referring to a pickle in any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several). The standard Sanskrit words for pickle have very clear analyses, i.e. avaleha ("licked down"). A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving". Whereas, there is a clearly related Persian word "achaar…

>A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving".

I think "non-moving" in Sanskrit should be "achara", not "achaara", i.e. a short "a" sound, not a long one, for the second syllable.

Similar to the word ”nishaachara" which means "night-moving”, referring to demons.

I studied Sanskrit for 5 years total in school and college, so although I am somewhat rusty now, I think what I said is right.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#107
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the Indo-Iranian etymology you are proposing? There is no attested word "achaara" referring to a pickle in any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several). The standard Sanskrit words for pickle have very clear analyses, i.e. avaleha ("licked down"). A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving". Whereas, there is a clearly related Persian word "achaar…

>A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving". I think "non-moving" in Sanskrit should be "a chara ", not "a chaara ", i.e. a short "a" sound, not a long one, for the second syllable. Similar to the word ”nishaa chara " which means "night-moving”, referring to demons. I studied Sanskrit for 5 years total in school and college, so although I am somewhat rusty now, I thin…

> I think "non-moving" in Sanskrit should be "achara", not "achaara", i.e. a short "a" sound, not a long one, for the second syllable.

Thanks for the correction. Yes, "achaara" is non moving. "achara" simply doesn't exist AFAICT, so my point stands that it's a Persian borrowing, not a Sanskrit derivative.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#108
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the Indo-Iranian etymology you are proposing? There is no attested word "achaara" referring to a pickle in any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several). The standard Sanskrit words for pickle have very clear analyses, i.e. avaleha ("licked down"). A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving". Whereas, there is a clearly related Persian word "achaar…

>any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several) What are those Sanskrit dictionaries you checked? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want Sanskrit resources, since I know it some and am interested in it.

> What are those Sanskrit dictionaries you checked?

I like the Cologne Digital Sanskrit Dictionaries site, which hosts several different dictionaries and has a powerful search interface.

https://www.sanskrit-lexicon.uni-koeln.de/

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#109
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Achar is not a Persian loan word in Hindi. Just because it's similar to the Persian word doesn't mean it's a loan word. Ancient Persian (Avestan) and Sanskrit were extremely similar to each other (basically the same language). So there are many old concepts and ideas that have the same words in the two languages. Achar is one of them, it's possibly a much older word.

What is the Indo-Iranian etymology you are proposing? There is no attested word "achaara" referring to a pickle in any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several). The standard Sanskrit words for pickle have very clear analyses, i.e. avaleha ("licked down"). A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving". Whereas, there is a clearly related Persian word "achaar…

I am not proposing any etymology. Just wanted to point that achar is not a loan word from Persian. It's not even the primary word for pickle in Persian actually (achar also means pickle but it sounds very odd in Persian, not an everyday word for pickle). That's what ticked me off about OP's comment. Pickle in Farsi is Torshi, especially in the Farsi that Mughals spoke (central Asian dialects). Afghans still call pickles torshi and not achar. On the other hand, my Nepali friends call their traditional pickles achar, and they have near zero Perso-Arabic influence in their vocabulary. In summary, there is no evidence that achar was a word brought in by the Mughals.

I couldn't find the etymology for achar, but I found references to classical Persian (Avestan) and Proto-Indo-Iranian. Apparently Ayurveda mentions achar, so it's possible that at some point there was a distinction between medicinal pickles and popular everyday pickles.

Nobody knows of course, but to me it's likely that achar has ancient origins, possibly in old Indus Valley or Gangetic Plains. In either case, history of pickle in Indian subcontinent and words used to describe isn't as simple as a loan word.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#110
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, this is not the western idea of Pickle. > These are long lasting, chilli powder filled, Mustard powder based goodness, that is tasty throughout the year, filling and an absolute delight. Achar right? 'Pickle' is exactly what I'd (white British) call it, and vice versa not be surprised when it was what I was given. Maybe you're thinking of American 'dill pickle' (where the pickle stands for 'with pickled cucum…

As a bit of a pickle enthusiast, I must object to the idea that it is "vegetables in vinegar and not a lot else". I was looking at making various Japanese pickles last year and rice bran with miso is a very common dry pickling bed; salt pickles are far more common than vinegar pickles (the recipe book I looked at had about ¼ of its pickles with some sort of vinegar, usually a rice vinegar). Even vinegar-based Western…

> As a bit of a pickle enthusiast, I must object to the idea that it is "vegetables in vinegar and not a lot else". I was looking at making various Japanese pickles [...]

To be clear I said 'most' and I meant only to be talking about what's prevalent in the UK, but I appreciate that wasn't clear in that paragraph (I only said 'non-Indian/inspired').

But anyway it was only to pander to 'sure you [the other commenter] might be thinking a pickle means a different looking thing', when my whole point was yes I agree it's a pickle, I'm absolutely not saying a pickle needs to be only vinegar and vegetable, or very liquidy, or really anything more strict than just that it be anaerobically fermented. (I'd far sooner/do exclude 'quick pickle', 'fridge pickle', et al. than achar!)

Since you mention 'oil-pickled products from Italy', a Delia-inspired favourite of mine is what she calls 'gardeners pickle' (pickles giardiniere) - the gist is roughly chopped vegetables (I think she includes mushrooms, fennel, onions, courgettes, aubergine, peppers, and tomato) in oil, vinegar, and salt. My frequently make it with just courgette and onion, perhaps plus cherry tomato - unfortunate bulk, with a piercing to allow the vinegar to penetrate they really are delicious! I eat it mostly on fresh bread with vintage cheddar (that's very mature, salty, I'm not sure it's available like that in the US - cheddar on the whole is not the same, and 'sharp' is not it) but it's also excellent as an addition to gazpacho - it's basically the same thing unblended after all.

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