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India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

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Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#91

Post by [deleted] »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #75
dilawar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope not. It was meant to be sprinkled on the top after oil and salt has been added. Besides’ we didn’t know that it was toxic. I read about it in my chemistry book and it is available in a medical store. I am more worried about people keeping insecticides in husked and unhusked rice. Trace amounts of insecticides is very common in grains here. I hope this improves soon since epigenetic changes due to insecticides…

You might be thinking of potassium metabisulphite? [1] Sounds like it's a white powder, which fits your description. Also, I grew up in India, and am pretty sure that at school, I read about this being introduced to complement traditional preservatives. ---------------------------------------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_metabisulfite

[deleted]

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#92

Post by danans »

19f191ty wrote: post #70
qart wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pickle is definitely the right word. Achar is a Persian loan word in Hindi. There's no good reason to use that as a standard term when writing in English. Both pickle and achar would sound alien to my great-grandparents, who spoke neither English nor Hindi. They would use the term uppinakaayi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_pickle

Achar is not a Persian loan word in Hindi. Just because it's similar to the Persian word doesn't mean it's a loan word. Ancient Persian (Avestan) and Sanskrit were extremely similar to each other (basically the same language). So there are many old concepts and ideas that have the same words in the two languages. Achar is one of them, it's possibly a much older word.

What is the Indo-Iranian etymology you are proposing?

There is no attested word "achaara" referring to a pickle in any Sanskrit dictionary I know of (I just checked several). The standard Sanskrit words for pickle have very clear analyses, i.e. avaleha ("licked down"). A similar analysis of "achaara" in Sanskrit would lead to a nonsense meaning of "not-moving".

Whereas, there is a clearly related Persian word "achaar" for a similarly preserved food, which apparently doesn't appear in any Indian texts prior to Mughal rule of South Asia.

Even if there were a shared Avestan/Sanskrit antecedent, many words that share a common ancestor in those languages got re-borrowed in their Persian form into Hindi during Mughal rule.

For example, the common Hindi word "garam", meaning hot, is a direct borrowing from Persian "garm". It replaced a related word for hot/heat from Sanskrit: "gharma" (the loss of original aspiration on the "g" is a feature of Persian). Both words share the same origin, but the Persian version is the one used across South Asia today.

Similarly, Hindi "chaador" meaning "blanket", is a Persian borrowing that also has a Sanskrit cognate "chhaadana" meaning "cover".

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#93

Post by schoen »

19f191ty wrote: post #70
qart wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pickle is definitely the right word. Achar is a Persian loan word in Hindi. There's no good reason to use that as a standard term when writing in English. Both pickle and achar would sound alien to my great-grandparents, who spoke neither English nor Hindi. They would use the term uppinakaayi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_pickle

Achar is not a Persian loan word in Hindi. Just because it's similar to the Persian word doesn't mean it's a loan word. Ancient Persian (Avestan) and Sanskrit were extremely similar to each other (basically the same language). So there are many old concepts and ideas that have the same words in the two languages. Achar is one of them, it's possibly a much older word.

The concept you're describing is a "cognate".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognate

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#94

Post by samatman »

OJFord wrote: post #63
kumarvvr wrote: post #56

Yeah, this is not the western idea of Pickle. These are long lasting, chilli powder filled, Mustard powder based goodness, that is tasty throughout the year, filling and an absolute delight. There are so many fond memories of eating mango pickle with steaming hot rice, in the hot summers in my home. In every Indian Home (at least in the south that I know about), you will find at least a couple of these pickles stocke…

> Yeah, this is not the western idea of Pickle. > These are long lasting, chilli powder filled, Mustard powder based goodness, that is tasty throughout the year, filling and an absolute delight. Achar right? 'Pickle' is exactly what I'd (white British) call it, and vice versa not be surprised when it was what I was given. Maybe you're thinking of American 'dill pickle' (where the pickle stands for 'with pickled cucum…

It's true that Americans call pickled cucumbers "pickles", they are far and away the most common kind, but we're aware of what pickling is, and have pickled eggs, pickled radish, pickled beets, and while we don't refer to sauerkraut as pickled cabbage (we call it, well, sauerkraut), we do know that's what it is.

We don't eat as much Branston pickle as Brits do, but it's available in most supermarkets.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#95

Post by davchana »

guntherhermann wrote: post #83
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some members of this famous group were from lower castes, and obviously, they were not allowed to physically touch the pickle. Obviously... I really enjoyed your post, but that part is just so shitty (not commenting on you, just the dynamic that exists).

It's very interesting though isn't it! These people were obviously skilled enough to make a clean environment for pickle to... pickle, but were seen as untouchable. I would have thought that the juxtaposition was so obvious that the people who weren't 'untouchable' didn't really believe it, but went along with it because everyone else did, too. I think this is probably a kind of pluralistic ignorance: https://en.wiki…

I agree. There were (or still are) various levels of untouchables, but not everywhere, not same people, and not same level of strictness. For example women if some areas are considered untouchables when they have periods (same home, same family, daughters, wives, mothers). Then the financial status. Then caste, tribe. Or language. Or geography.

I don't agree to any of the above.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#96

Post by user_7832 »

smusamashah wrote: post #27
satvikpendem wrote: post #17

I make pickles like these, but I've never seen them that old. Generally we make them and eat them within several months, then make more. Mango pickle is my favorite as it has just the right spiciness, while lemon pickles are often too sour for my taste. If you want to try them, they are usually at your local Indian grocery store. These pickles are mainly eaten with rice or dishes like dosas and idlis, often when you…

For anyone else looking to try Indian/Pakistani pickles. They are made of various fruits and veggies. Mango is the most popular one in Pakistan. Others include carrot, lemon, green pepper, onion and some other ones. Pickle is dipped and preserved in oil. My family has made mango pickle at home many time over the years. Like GP it is eaten in span of months. It can be very sour. Here in UK, we have found Ahmad Foods p…

> I have seen on TV that one of the favourite Indian meals is Paratha and Pickle. Is it a common meal?

It's certainly not uncommon, though I think it's often paired (for good reason) with yoghurt. It's more of a breakfast/snack meal than a full lunch meal though, however parathas & pickles can be components of a full meal too.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#97

Post by anjanb »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #20
satvikpendem wrote: post #17

I make pickles like these, but I've never seen them that old. Generally we make them and eat them within several months, then make more. Mango pickle is my favorite as it has just the right spiciness, while lemon pickles are often too sour for my taste. If you want to try them, they are usually at your local Indian grocery store. These pickles are mainly eaten with rice or dishes like dosas and idlis, often when you…

To add: if you are buying them from a store, you will need to try multiple brands before you find the one that’s right for you. Unlike western-style pickles, the taste can vary very wildly across brands.

Sri Sri Tattva Mango pickles are quite good : https://www.srisritattva.com/products/shop-mango-pickle-300g

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#98

Post by lcedp »

Metacelsus wrote: post #55
dilawar wrote: post #39

Ah, the "achaar". So wrongly translated as "pickle". In my village (Ganges plain, North India), making achaar was a significant seasonal community event. When mangoes were small, we used to wait for heavy winds during early monsoon. A lot of raw mangoes would fall on the ground, and the next day they would be sold at a much cheaper price. There were two broad classes of mango varieties: one for eating ripe, and the o…

>My contribution to this was introducing potassium permanganate as an extra layer to fight fungus. It is still known as "achaar powder" in the village. Did people end up eating potassium permanganate? I think that would be pretty toxic.

> Did people end up eating potassium permanganate? I think that would be pretty toxic.

It is definitely toxic and dangerous. Yet, we used a very light solution of it (I'm thinking <0.1%, a very light shade of purple) to cause vomit reflex.

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#99

Post by [deleted] »

webmobdev wrote: post #49
rishabhd wrote: post #35

My father knew he had a year, or two at most, left. On a sunny day in May 2020, he bought green Kairi mangoes, pickled them, and passed on his recipe. He made three batches to last at least 5-7 years. He passed away from NAFLD in 2021, but we have his memories and his handmade flavorful pickle. RIP wherever you are, Pops.

What a nice memory to have of him! If you don't mind, please share his recipe.

[deleted]

Re: India’s pickle people: Decades-old culinary heirlooms, nostalgia

#100

Post by [deleted] »

webmobdev wrote: post #49
rishabhd wrote: post #35

My father knew he had a year, or two at most, left. On a sunny day in May 2020, he bought green Kairi mangoes, pickled them, and passed on his recipe. He made three batches to last at least 5-7 years. He passed away from NAFLD in 2021, but we have his memories and his handmade flavorful pickle. RIP wherever you are, Pops.

What a nice memory to have of him! If you don't mind, please share his recipe.

[deleted]
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