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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#231

Post by badpun »

CableNinja wrote: post #76
undersuit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

Housing density, and radius of "walkable" to the average human. I live in a neighborhood full of small apartments, single level duplexes, and single family homes. What stores are walkable? The liquor store, and gas station, and if i really feel like it, dominos and 7-11, both of which are at least 1/4 mile one way. Most others in this area, dont get those even. Past that its about a mile one way to the actual grocery…

A mile to a store is a very comfortable distance. I've lived in such situation for a couple of years and just walked to the store a couple times a week, hauling back a couple of kilograms of groceries in my backpack every time. I needed the walk and the exercise anyway, and this way I was killing two birds with one stone.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#232

Post by Kirby64 »

epivosism wrote: post #214
richjdsmith wrote: post #23

With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads. I think we should be shifting entirely to a gross curb weight tax for all vehicles. The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused by the motor vehicle increases in proportion to the fourth power of the axle load. Meaning heavier EVs cough hummer , are doi…

Isn't the proper tax on tires? The more you shed, the faster they need replacement. So cars which shed a lot of microplastics would both use up more tires, AND would pay more tax. So as the tax increases we correctly linearly decrease tire use. It would be a mistake to over-punish EV users compared to ICE just because the average weight of an EV is heavier. (We know the weights, we don't need to average by class) Thi…

This is two different things though.

Road use tax is intended to be used to pay for road maintenance and infrastructure. It's why if you live on a farm you can get tax-free diesel that is dyed red. You aren't using the road/infrastructure, so you shouldn't need to pay the tax.

If the goal is to reduce tire microplastics, the tax should be specifically based on tire lifespan, which is already well known. It's called UTQG.

Today we tend to conflate tax on pollution and tax on infrastructure though, since gas guzzler cars use much more gas (and cause more pollution, theoritically, all else equal) than the wear on the roads themselves. If this was truly about taxing externalities, it would be 3 taxes. Tax based on weight, tax based on efficiency, and tax based on tire tread life.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#233

Post by CharlieDigital »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #227
CharlieDigital wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobility; unfortunately, the public transit infrastructure in the US isn't that great and the sprawl means that cars have become a necessity. Many areas simply can't be served efficiently by transit.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

Agree, but there's no political will and even if there was, it would take decades.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#234

Post by usrusr »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #137
spandextwins wrote: post #84

Years of creating artificial reefs from old tires are catching up. I wonder how sharp those people are? Next we should find about how those giant ships that blow their exhaust under water and kill all life.

Perhaps you misread. The microplastics in the ocean are from airborne tire particles, as in from cars' tires rubbing on roads, that get washed away into the ocean. You could build cities of tires in the ocean and they would probably not be significant compared with normal tire friction in normal vehicle use. Also most of those reefs will be covered by debris and ocean flora, synthetic rubber is mostly decomposed by f…

In other words: sooner or later every bit of synthetic rubber that is part of the tire when it leaves the factory and that isn't part of the tire when it goes to wherever those things go at EOL will eventually be washed away by rain. And then it either becomes inland sediment or make its way into the oceans.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#235

Post by notatoad »

richjdsmith wrote: post #23

With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads. I think we should be shifting entirely to a gross curb weight tax for all vehicles. The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused by the motor vehicle increases in proportion to the fourth power of the axle load. Meaning heavier EVs cough hummer , are doi…

> as a form of taxation to pay for roads

at least in the US, and i believe most countries, gas taxes haven't really paid for roads for a long time. Gas taxes go into the general fund, and road maintenance and construction comes out of the general fund, but gas taxes cover less than half the cost of roads.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#236

Post by baggy_trough »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #227
CharlieDigital wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobility; unfortunately, the public transit infrastructure in the US isn't that great and the sprawl means that cars have become a necessity. Many areas simply can't be served efficiently by transit.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

I'd like to know why you think cars are not inherently better as it seems very obvious that they are. That is why people overwhelmingly prefer to use them.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#237

Post by redwall_hp »

standardUser wrote: post #190
c54 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Synthetic rubber is a type of plastic

Citation please.

A dictionary would suffice.

"Plastic" is a general term that covers any polymer-based material. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic

Tires are made of synthetic elastomers which are all polymers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_rubber

Elasticity has no bearing on whether something is a plastic or not, and any attempt to use it as a distinction would be pointlessly arbitrary. Silicone is certainly a polymer...

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#238

Post by burkaman »

nerdponx wrote: post #182
mlsu wrote: post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

Do tires shed more dust at higher speeds? I wonder if this has always been a known but unstated problem, or if increasing highway speeds are causing it to get worse.

Seems like it from a couple studies, for example: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972....

Vehicle weight is also a significant factor, so EVs will make this particular problem worse. Still worth the tradeoff, but obviously not using a car at all is the best option.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#239

Post by teruakohatu »

richjdsmith wrote: post #23

With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads. I think we should be shifting entirely to a gross curb weight tax for all vehicles. The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused by the motor vehicle increases in proportion to the fourth power of the axle load. Meaning heavier EVs cough hummer , are doi…

> With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads.

In New Zealand soon EVs will face Road User Charges, which mean they pay a per km tax as all diesel vehicles do today. The tax is based on the class of vehicle and so EVs won't be charged more than a diesel cars.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#240

Post by derkades »

baggy_trough wrote: post #236
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

I'd like to know why you think cars are not inherently better as it seems very obvious that they are. That is why people overwhelmingly prefer to use them.

Only when infrastructure is built in a way that makes cars the most convenient option.
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