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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#221

Post by desas »

Animatronio wrote: post #131
CableNinja wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As i mentioned in my other post. Thats not far for most people. More than 1/4 mile and people will not hesitate to get the car

I was just thinking - why don't they make electrified coin-operated shopping carts that you can take home and return when you're done with them? That would greatly extend the carrying capacity of a single person and maybe make car trips redundant.

Because nearly no-one wants to walk to the store, walk home, walk back to the store to return the cart and then walk home again.

I never drive to the store and I still wouldn't do that.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#222

Post by dpeckett »

spqr0a1 wrote: post #146
kylebenzle wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great question! Its super simple, it is ONLY the length of the hydrocarbon chain, a better quality natural rubber has really long chains (10,000+ atoms long) that last a LONG time and are VERY stretchy. Synthetic rubber (or plastic) is shorter (1,000 atoms long) and doesn't last as long. Thats it, it is the exact same "product" just a chain that gets longer and longer and changes its physical properties as it grows.

It's more than just the chain length. The most common synthetic rubbers are styrene-butadiene copolymers. Natural rubber is polyisoprene. While it is true that shorter chain synthetic polyisoprene is available, it is a much smaller part of the market than styrene-butadiene.

Does look like both natural and synthetic polyisoprene is at-least somewhat biodegradeable: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC92035/

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#223

Post by Gibbon1 »

dataflow wrote: post #51
undersuit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

How far do you think people should be willing to walk to a store?

My data point when I lived in SF is I would walk a third of a mile with two bags of groceries. But didn't really want to walk half a mile.

Back when I lived in San Jose I could also walk to the store because way back in the 1940's they put a pedestrian walkway between two streets which dropped the walking distance from my house to the shopping center from half a mile to again a third of a mile.

Which brings up something I think is over looked. Which is the layout of streets in post war housing tracts makes the distances you need to walk twice are far as they could be. With zoning changes, money and some eminent domain we could make things better.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#224

Post by wcunning »

artisanspam wrote: post #191
richjdsmith wrote: post #23

With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads. I think we should be shifting entirely to a gross curb weight tax for all vehicles. The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused by the motor vehicle increases in proportion to the fourth power of the axle load. Meaning heavier EVs cough hummer , are doi…

The Ford F150 is the best selling car in the US by a long-shot and it's a gas guzzler. Given that, I don't think consumers care a lot about how much they pay in taxes when deciding on a vehicle to purchase. I don't think this'd have the incentive that you're suggesting it would unless something else is done, such as increasing the tax overall.

The most popular F150s are significantly less gas guzzling than my 2005 sedan that I replaced with an F150. Not to mention that my F150 is more capable in winter conditions (major importance in Michigan) and more capable for the DIY stuff I do (I actually do regularly get lumber, plywood, drywall and other things that only fit in the 8ft bed that I actually bought). All while using less gas... Efficiency has gone up markedly in the 13 years between that 2005 and the 2018 F150 I bought. The weird thing is that you can get an F150 with significantly better real world mileage than an Escape, which is massively smaller, lighter, more aerodynamic, etc. Consumers are smarter than you're giving them credit for here.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#225

Post by bri3d »

paddy_m wrote: post #50
kylebenzle wrote: post #15

I worked on a phd for 4 years looking into this problem indirectly and for a decade at Ohio State they have had working solutions to the tire dust issue but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get funding. A Billion dollar industry and NO ONE cares about cleaning it up if it means increasing costs by 5% or more. It has been WELL KNOWN for 50 years! We are basically aerosolizing carbon in MASSIVE amounts right where we live and work.…

Can natural rubber be made as soft as synthetic rubber? What kind of rubber is used on race cars (and dirt bikes)? Cost is much less of an issue for those markets.

Natural rubber is used extensively in higher-end applications (race cars, trucks, aircraft). However, almost all tires are some hybrid of the two. Generally, natural rubber is used in the construction of the tire "carcass" and sidewalls while synthetic rubber (compounded with a gazillion and one other things) is used to construct the tread.

The basic issues are pretty intuitive:

* The supply of natural rubber is constrained by the ability to grow the plants which produce it.

* It's hard to make synthetic rubber with polymer chains as long as those in natural rubber (isoprene), so natural rubber tends to be more pliable and stronger, while synthetic rubber (styrene) tends to sheer off into microparticles.

* However, natural rubber degrades more rapidly when heated and cooled, and is more difficult to control in order to achieve a desired level of stickiness at a given temperature (which is basically what tires are aiming for).

I think that OP's research would be quite interesting to learn about more, as my understanding is that tire manufacturers employ hundreds of chemists who are dedicated full-time to attempting to replicate natural rubber synthetically in an efficient way.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#227

Post by TaylorAlexander »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #205
whoknowsidont wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The positive externalities are even more enormous What do cars specifically positively provide? NOT including the positives that exists due to constructing infrastructure around that mode of transportation (artificial issues).

Mobility; unfortunately, the public transit infrastructure in the US isn't that great and the sprawl means that cars have become a necessity. Many areas simply can't be served efficiently by transit.

But this is not an inherent property of cars. It is only true because we invested all our transit dollars in highways. Cars are not inherently better and roads are not free. If we invest more in public transit we can reduce our need for cars.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#228

Post by wldlyinaccurate »

mnahkies wrote: post #203
richjdsmith wrote: post #23

With the continued shift to EVs, petrol taxes just don't make sense as a form of taxation to pay for roads. I think we should be shifting entirely to a gross curb weight tax for all vehicles. The fourth power law states that the greater the axle load of a vehicle, the stress on the road caused by the motor vehicle increases in proportion to the fourth power of the axle load. Meaning heavier EVs cough hummer , are doi…

New Zealand plans to charge road user charges for EVs next year AFAIK. This is a per km tax, though don't believe it has a weight consideration

All vehicles in NZ pay road user charges; EVs have just been exempt to encourage uptake. There are RUC weight classes but they only exist to separate light (=3500kg) vehicles rather than distinguish between a Nissan Leaf (1600kg) and a Ford Ranger (2100kg).

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#229

Post by mlsu »

baggy_trough wrote: post #186
mlsu wrote: post #166

Has anyone here ever lived near a freeway or even moderately busy road? I made the mistake of renting next to the freeway. Noise was perfectly tolerable, but I could not use my back porch, because after just a few weeks, everything had a fine coating of black dust. I could not keep my windows open in the summer. I was certainly breathing this vile shit the entire time I lived there. This doesn't surprise me in the le…

The positive externalities are even more enormous, which is a problem for environmentalists.

That must be why walkable areas like Manhattan or London are so inexpensive, right?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#230

Post by PartiallyTyped »

wnoise wrote: post #169
eep_social wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just let’s please not require a government-approved mileage tracking device to make sure that each vehicle is charged it’s fair share. That’s one really nice property of gas taxes they will be hard to replace without going full dystopia, and there is a significant contingent that doesn’t give a shit about the privacy and security implications.

A tire tax would also work, except for the unfortunate safety implications.

It would most likely hurt the working class more than anyone else.
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