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Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

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Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#51

Post by dataflow »

undersuit wrote: post #33
dragontamer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs have higher torque but that doesn’t matter unless to drive like a mad-man Its not torque that matters. Its simply friction and normal force. And that's directly caused by weight. Tire Wear is something like (weight^4), so small increases in weight will have huge increases to wear-and-tear. --------- I think the real issue is that 3000lbs to 4500lbs, while a significant increase in tire wear, is still small comp…

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

How far do you think people should be willing to walk to a store?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#53

Post by ilyt »

audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

> Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. EVs have higher torque but that doesn’t matter unless to drive like a mad-man. EVs also allow you to drive very smoothly with no sudden jerk in torque.

Time-to-replace-tyre is insignicant. If tyre manufacturer is tasked with making EV tyre with same durability as normal tyre they will just make rubber and grooves thicker.

Also technically heavier car on wider tyre might use them up at similar rate than lighter car on skinnier tyre (as load-per-cm2 would be similar) but obviously produce more dust.

> Cars have been getting heavier long before EVs came around. One of the problems is that EVs are all new. Too many of them are bigger than they need to be. But that also goes for new ICE vehicle models.

It took ~20-30 years for average ICE car to get ~30% heavier. EVs add another ~30-50% on top of that increase.

For any comparable ICE, EV will be heavier.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#54

Post by undersuit »

dataflow wrote: post #51
undersuit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

How far do you think people should be willing to walk to a store?

People should walk as far as they are willing to walk.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#55

Post by doubled112 »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #41
undersuit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

> Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck? Single-use zoning. Most people in the US live in areas where you can't walk to a store.

The nearest store is a 45 minute walk (one way) from my townhouse. I'm not in the US, but Canada. Driving drops that to 8 minutes.

The sprawl is real and I just don't always have 1.5 hours to dedicate to grabbing bread.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#56

Post by ilyt »

bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

And that still solves not all that much because you still have to feed the city by fleet of trucks, and still need to have a fleet of vans to deliver all of that to the stores you now walk or cycle to.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#57

Post by nicoburns »

rough-sea wrote: post #45
bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

Yet another misguided comment. We cannot simply stop driving anymore than we can stop using an increasing amount energy. There are huge portions of humanity that live in places that depend on cars. It’s a non-solution to say people should just stop driving - billions cannot.

It's unreasonable to expect individuals to unilaterally stop driving. But on a societal scale, it's entirely reasonable to expect our governments to build infrastructure that allows (many of) us to stop driving. That isn't simple, but neither is it an intractable problem.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#58

Post by jayd16 »

undersuit wrote: post #33
dragontamer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs have higher torque but that doesn’t matter unless to drive like a mad-man Its not torque that matters. Its simply friction and normal force. And that's directly caused by weight. Tire Wear is something like (weight^4), so small increases in weight will have huge increases to wear-and-tear. --------- I think the real issue is that 3000lbs to 4500lbs, while a significant increase in tire wear, is still small comp…

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

I wouldn't mind walking to the store now and then but usually I make fewer trips for more than I could carry.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#59

Post by throwaway920102 »

bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

Or you know we could just all kill ourselves and that would solve the problem too but people like realistic solutions. Natural rubber exists and we don't have to use synthetic compounds in tires, we can just have shittier tires.

Why do you propose no driving rather than shittier, more expensive driving?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#60

Post by undersuit »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #41
undersuit wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

> Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck? Single-use zoning. Most people in the US live in areas where you can't walk to a store.

Yes now, but I have assume to were talking about improvements and the future of "walking, biking and public transportation" since adunw started this thread with that sentiment.
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