Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

thedrive.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 635 posts

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#41

Post by beedeebeedee »

undersuit wrote: post #33
dragontamer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs have higher torque but that doesn’t matter unless to drive like a mad-man Its not torque that matters. Its simply friction and normal force. And that's directly caused by weight. Tire Wear is something like (weight^4), so small increases in weight will have huge increases to wear-and-tear. --------- I think the real issue is that 3000lbs to 4500lbs, while a significant increase in tire wear, is still small comp…

>Do we want 100-people in a neighborhood driving 100x cars to a store? Or would we rather have 1x large truck deliver a (heavier) package to 100x different people? Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

> Why can't the majority of the people walk to a store and the rest can be serviced by a smaller truck?

Single-use zoning. Most people in the US live in areas where you can't walk to a store.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#42

Post by lb1lf »

audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

Batteries are still heavy.

For instance, the VW id.3 (small-ish EV) has a curb weight 250-450kg (550-1,000lbs) more than my wife's gasoline VW Passat, a quite spacious estate wagon.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#43

Post by beedeebeedee »

bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

And changing to mixed-use zoning- that is the number one issue in fixing our transport system

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#44

Post by paddy_m »

bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

Not driving requires even less. It requires the local and state governments to stop making it illegal to build the type of dense walkable neighborhoods that we built until the 1930s.

Let landowners build what they deem fit on their own land. That's it (or a large part of it)

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#45

Post by rough-sea »

bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

Yet another misguided comment.

We cannot simply stop driving anymore than we can stop using an increasing amount energy. There are huge portions of humanity that live in places that depend on cars. It’s a non-solution to say people should just stop driving - billions cannot.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#46

Post by TeMPOraL »

bedobi wrote: post #34

Typical hackernews to have threads full of well meaning but ultimately misguided people saying ah we have some technological solution for this. The solution to this problem and every other problem caused by driving is not driving . Period. Not driving doesn't require any new technology, it just requires getting serious about alternatives to driving. (safe, separated bike ways, ebike and micromobility subsidies, rail,…

In other words: you're proposing to replace a set of possible, if difficult, technological solutions, with an near-impossible social solution. I'd call that misguided.

Technological solutions tend to be discussed because they can be implemented. Social solutions may work better, but only in imaginary la-la land where they can actually be put into practice. In the real world, you can't "just" get people to not drive.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#47

Post by RetroTechie »

blueflow wrote: post #26
bilsbie wrote: post #16

I wonder if we could switch to a biodegradable plastic.

biodegradable vs durable, pick one.

The article mentions that tire dust largely consists of "ultrafine" particles (Perhaps it's possible to use compounds for which precisely those fine particles bio-degrade quicker than for currently used compounds?

Big-object & fine particle properties are different enough to look into this, no?

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#48

Post by lb1lf »

modeless wrote: post #2

I'm glad people are looking at how to reduce the impact of tire dust. I expect we can make big improvements because it's not something we've optimized for yet. Not mentioned in the article is that EVs also dramatically reduce brake dust because the brakes are hardly used compared to an ICE car.

Surely brake dust must be negligible compared to tire and asphalt dust?

I recently replaced the brake pads on my Land Cruiser; 70,000km (45,000 miles) since they were last replaced. This is a large, heavy 4x4, yet the amount of brake liner worn from the pads must have been on the order of a pound, if not less.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#49

Post by chiefalchemist »

audunw wrote: post #7

It’s great to bring this problem up. But the focus on EVs is a distraction. > EVs tend to shed around 20 percent more from their tires due to their higher weight and high torque compared to traditional internal combustion engine-powered vehicles. It’s covered in this panel discussion on Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/LeHakmL6eEc?si=ebBAn8RSDhmmLfHI Fleet operators don’t see any significant difference in tire wear. E…

> Cars have been getting heavier long before EVs came around. One of the problems is that EVs are all new. Too many of them are bigger than they need to be. But that also goes for new ICE vehicle models.

I’m not too worried about the weight of EVs long term.

Given the rate of climate change / ecological damage, what definition are we using for "long term"?

That aside, you've might have buried the lede. The switch over to EVs should represent an opportunity to revisit and evolve what personal transportation could look like and should look like[1]. Instead we've taking the same *old* bigger, stronger, faster paradigm and replacing petrol with a plug. Humans' role in the bigger broader picture isn't changing. It's the starus quo with a solar panel.

There's a better than fair chance we're going to regret squandering this opportunity.

[1] Similar happened with the pandemic...an opportunity to revist and rethink was quickly swept aside for back to the status quo. ASAP please. That's great for the status quo but certain a concern for the long term.

Re: Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics

#50

Post by paddy_m »

kylebenzle wrote: post #15

I worked on a phd for 4 years looking into this problem indirectly and for a decade at Ohio State they have had working solutions to the tire dust issue but it is IMPOSSIBLE to get funding. A Billion dollar industry and NO ONE cares about cleaning it up if it means increasing costs by 5% or more. It has been WELL KNOWN for 50 years! We are basically aerosolizing carbon in MASSIVE amounts right where we live and work.…

Can natural rubber be made as soft as synthetic rubber? What kind of rubber is used on race cars (and dirt bikes)? Cost is much less of an issue for those markets.
Post reply on HN