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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#993
post #971

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m happy with my 15% but the 30% never bothered me either. I still remember the cheers when the 30% was announced because it was vastly better than what the splits were before the launch of the App Store and even now it’s an industry standard. > (instead of coming up with all the weird ways you have to qualify for lower rates, which don't cover all scenarios) Not sure what you’re alluding to here. You essentially au…

It's not just the price that's outrageous, but also anti-competitive terms that come with it. You're not allowed to have a better price outside of the App Store. iOS users aren't paying for their preferred payment system, it's everyone else subsidizing Apple's cut. You're not allowed to give customers a choice of payment methods (people like Apple's subscription, but some may prefer PayPal, especially for multi-platf…

Reading your comment makes me wonder if you have personal experience with the App Store because it’s the kind of criticism I read in tech articles but doesn’t entirely line up with the reality on the ground (if not outright false).

> You're not allowed to have a better price outside of the App Store. iOS users aren't paying for their preferred payment system, it's everyone else subsidizing Apple's cut.

This is simply not true. You’re not required to have price parity with IAPs if you also sell access to the service by other means.

> You're not allowed to give customers a choice of payment methods (people like Apple's subscription, but some may prefer PayPal, especially for multi-platform products). You're not allowed to say they exist outside of the App Store.

This one is half true (if we’re not talking about an app that facilitates purchase of physical goods). You can’t add a PayPal payment option within the app, but you can direct users to your website to sign up, at which point you can give them any payment option (sans IAP).

There are entire app categories called “reader apps” that specifically utilize this.

> Apple intentionally bundles and mixes together security, convenience, and anti-competitive terms. This confuses the discussion, because if you protest the inflated price, or the unfair terms, they say "oh, so you want users to get malware, huh!?".

To a certain extent the security argument is valid, but more so in terms of app distribution and less so in terms of payments.

> The price is high for what you get

Depends on which price we’re talking about. The 15% or the 30%.

> — an inflexible payment system without ability to offer direct customer support for the payments, and a lottery ticket to maybe appear somewhere else in the store than search results for your app's name, with your competitor's ad first.

Direct support for payments has been made available a while ago. Both in terms of giving the customer a refund as well as in making sure the customer doesn’t receive a refund when they’ve used up consumable purchases.

Caveat is however that it requires a significant backend to utilize these options and most smaller devs prefer that Apple handles this for them.

> Low-margin businesses can't exist with Apple's pricing. Even higher-margin business sucks with Apple - 40% margin is good, but when 30% goes to Apple, Apple earns 3x more than you do.

Again, you’re assuming a 30% cut where most are subject to a 15% cut. Other than that this is a theoretical argument, software generally isn’t a low margin business and has enormous elasticity in terms of margins compared to the production of physical goods.

> If I develop and app, and market it myself, and already have a relationship with my customers, Apple just inserts themselves with a "product" I don't want, my users may not want, but we're forced to buy it.

Again, mainly a theoretical argument. Case in point being the many Mac apps that choose to publish on the MAS in addition to their own distribution methods.

It also completely ignores the value add provided by Apple in terms of developing and maintaining the SDKs and APIs your app depends on, not to mention the toolchain used to create said apps.

The commission is just a way of charging for those services (and defined as such in the developer agreement), other companies might instead charge per seat or, if they’re really stupid, per install. In the gaming world they charge a hefty price per published build. While these options might be attractive for bigger developers, it would be prohibitively costly for small indie developers, creating a significant hurdle to entry.

The problem of Apple’s revenue share structure is of course that people start forgetting what they’re actually paying for and quickly start to think they’re just paying for a glorified payment processor.

In practice the points you brought up are non-issues for most small developers, which make up the vast majority of developers on these platforms. They do however become an issue for big developers, who now, that they’ve picked up steam, would very much like a side letter and try to rile up the smaller indie developers to fight for their cause.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#994

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please buy an Android then. Why insist on giving your hard earned money to someone who does not care about your requirements ?

Because I like iPhone hardware. It's high quality and lasts. The EU has the right to mandate rules on what corporations sell to its population. No one is forcing Apple to keep selling phones in the EU. They could even create a version of iPhone exclusively for them. Hopefully that hasn't been the case and finally we all have USB-C. Thanks EU. Hopefully they start being much more strict about repairability and opennes…

> The EU has the right to mandate rules on what corporations sell to its population.

I don't see how EU has a "right" to decide what the population can buy or not. Sounds like tyranny to me.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#995

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don't use Whatsapp if that's the case? I notice so many people complaining about so many things but they refuse to boycott them. If >x% of the population actually take action on any issue, it'll get solved.

If you live in Costa Rica, then you have no choice but to use WhatsApp. I suppose technically could you could choose to be entirely unable to communicate and to be left out of the economy, but that's not much of a choice.

That is still a choice, though, even if it's a sucky one. Sounds like people are forced to choose WA in lieu of starving because they have no/less income.

Boycotting requires a sacrifice and of course I understand that for some the sacrifice is too great; I wouldn't blame them at all.

But my point was more, in the West people make so much noise about stuff and yet do nothing. And we are all generally quite privileged compared to some other parts of the world.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#996

Theoretically it is hard to argue against letting apple configure and manage the devices they sell as they see fit. After all of users don't like iphone they can buy a galaxy. It's not like apple is a monopoly in smartphones. However, the current market situation is definitely limiting customer choice and freedom in a way very similar to a monopoly. There are only 2 options in the market. Iphone or android. So even i…

> This thing has happened multiple times before with removable batteries, headphone jacks, memory cards, etc. I care about having a headphone jack a little bit, but there is literally no new phone coming out with that feature now. You can still get some, but not without major degradation in areas like CPU/GPU, battery, screen, cameras, etc.

I think the whole Sony Xperia line has headphone jacks. For example, their latest one the Xperia 5 V: https://www.sony.co.uk/smartphones/products/xperia-5m5

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#997

Will this include the ability to compile apps for iOS without requiring Apple made hardware/software (that specifically must run on MacOS)? Have never understood why developers haven't kicked up more of a fuss over that restriction, but it's why I would never write iOS apps as a hobby.

I don't think there are enough users of XCode within the EU to trigger it as a gatekeeper. I think the threshold is 45 million MAU

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#998

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I like iPhone hardware. It's high quality and lasts. The EU has the right to mandate rules on what corporations sell to its population. No one is forcing Apple to keep selling phones in the EU. They could even create a version of iPhone exclusively for them. Hopefully that hasn't been the case and finally we all have USB-C. Thanks EU. Hopefully they start being much more strict about repairability and opennes…

> The EU has the right to mandate rules on what corporations sell to its population. I don't see how EU has a "right" to decide what the population can buy or not. Sounds like tyranny to me.

Should you be able to buy any drug, organ or children? I don’t think so, no government on this planet has a free market because there are laws and regulations.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#999
post #689
post #665

Im reading this whole discussion and Im totally buffled by ppl trying to FORCE their way of thinking on others. Nobody forces ppl to use Apple products, nobody forces ppl to use Google products. Ppl do so because they have no options to choose from. So - Instead of fixing the issue of "there is no options to choose from" we try to force OUR rules on companies that operate totally within the rules of open market. The…

> Nobody forces ppl to use Apple products, nobody forces ppl to use Google products. Ppl do so because they have no options to choose from. If I use neither Google nor Apple, I loose access to banking apps and other third-party apps. I have a choice not to use them, but that means I loose access to products that were developed by neither of those. Hell, even if I use Google's hardware (Pixels) but not Google software…

> If I use neither Google nor Apple, I loose access to banking apps and other third-party apps

So your real issue is lack of competition. Something that could be regulated but is not due to corrupted goverment. So instead of fixing the system to force Google and Apple to compete on a market, we prefer to choose an easy bandaid while keeping everything the same. Yes my solution is harder but there are no easy solutions to hard problems.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#1000

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Nope, my parents had 20 things installed on their Android devices because they clicked yes to something. I insist on the fact that you should respect the end user’s choice of platform and not try to change the platform to earn your 30% more. If you really hate it - don’t develop for Apple. I mean at the end of the day you can tell your customers buy an Android phone and see what they prefer - your app or the Apple ec…

You need to first go to the settings to allow installations of Third Party Apps, then you get a warning of Google Play Protect that you have to expand, and then you have to confirm that you know the App is a security risk and explicitly go forward with the installation. Your parents did this on purpose
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