EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals • Hacker News Board

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#91

Post by OJFord » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:25 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

> However, I absolutely love that all the developers including the likes of Meta or Uber have to bow down to Apple's rules, which are mostly beneficial to me. I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. I want them to be available in App Store and to be submitting to all of the curation rules.

On Android, you have to abide by Google's rules if you want to be in the Play Store; Amazon's if you want to be in theirs; F-Droid's to be there.

Consumers have choice over whose rules they care about. In a hypothetical iOS with app store competition, what you write would presumably still be true for the Apple App Store, there just might be an 'F-iOS' or whatever that insists the app is open source too, for example.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#92

Post by wmal » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:26 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

I like the walled garden of Apple as well, especially as a “family IT guy” who had no need to reset/reconfigure the systems or remove malware from any phones since talking the family members to switch to iPhones a few years back.

Some of the properties of the walled garden have nothing to do with security, though. They are simply uncompetitive practices on Apple part. I’m happy someone said “enough”.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#93

Post by yreg » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #81

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

> I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. Then don't. Nobody is forcing you.

I want to download them from the App Store. I use Instagram, but I want it to play by Apple's rules. Surely you understand what I mean.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#94

Post by dogma1138 » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:27 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #88

dogma1138 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore than Honda or Ford hold a monopoly on their cars…

the monopoly car companies have on their cars is one of the ways they fleece consumers. It's why they have pricing power on repairs, can charge whatever they want for their self driving solutions etc. There's a reason why almost all of them are trying to turn their cars from mechanical vehicles into glorified software/service platforms, it's a way to lock people in. In a world where hardware and software is open and…

Fine then apply rules equally, I want to be able to use Nissan parts in my BMW and play Xbox and Steam games on my PlayStation…

There are advantages to having a walled garden and I would want to have some assurance that I would be able to block side loading and that it would never be applied without it being clearly and constantly visible to the user. I also want to be sure that no 3rd party can compel me to install their own App Store to get their app which is a quite possible and likely scenario due to the DMA.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#95

Post by threeseed » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #81

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

> I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. Then don't. Nobody is forcing you.

Except this is a disingenuous argument.

Because there will be many applications you may need to use e.g. banking which will be on an alternative App Store purely so they can skirt Apple's privacy restrictions. Finance is one sector where they would love to siphon all of your user data in order to better promote products and reduce risk.

And so I would be forced to use them.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#96

Post by arp242 » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #64

kwanbix wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Apple hold a monopoly on the iPhone/iPad ecosystem? Why am I not allowed to install Firefox or Chrome (real Firefox or Chrome)?

Not anymore than Honda or Ford hold a monopoly on their cars…

But after I bought a Honda or Ford I can do with it what I want and install whatever aftermarket stuff I want. Ford makes no pretence to have an exhaustive whitelist what I can do with my car, whereas Apple does.

(In recent years some of the electronics might be locked down, or I wouldn't be surprised if they are, but this is also criticized and the reason things like right-to-repair laws have been proposed and in some cases enacted.)

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#97

Post by larme » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #67

It is understandable why Apple wants to keep its current grip on iOS indefinitely. What I don't understand is why some people defend it, on this very forum! One commenter simultaneously defended gay marriages - "if you don't like gay marriages, don't get married to gays" - and defended the Apple's monopoly - "I like that there is only one Appstore and developers won't force me to sideload".

Lesser of two evils principle maybe? I defend apple in this one appstore topic not because I think apple is good, but just better than google and facebook.

Of course the longterm solution is to get better legalization on privacy protection etc. But before that, I really prefer apple as a proxy between me and google/facebook/etc.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#98

Post by albert180 » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:28 PM UTC

kiratp wrote: post #47

ssklash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "won't someone think of my mom" argument. Somehow we get by just fine on x86 with arbitrary software being allowed, but for IOS it's unthinkable?

We don't get by fine on x86. That is the whole point here. My non-technical family are able to make their iOS devices "just work" with 0 support.

[flagged]

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#99

Post by yreg » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #91

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

> However, I absolutely love that all the developers including the likes of Meta or Uber have to bow down to Apple's rules, which are mostly beneficial to me. I don't want to download apps from alternative app stores. I want them to be available in App Store and to be submitting to all of the curation rules. On Android, you have to abide by Google's rules if you want to be in the Play Store; Amazon's if you want to b…

I believe companies like Meta could afford to leave the Apple App Store and distribute apps through their own app store only.

Perhaps you might say that would be fair, but it is a world that suits me less than the current one.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#100

Post by diffeomorphism » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

yreg wrote: post #73

My opinion won't be popular. I think it is nice to have a choice of a walled off platform. If I wanted a "more open" platform, I would get an Android phone. There are plenty of amazing Android phones. I choose the tradeoff of Apple's curation. Yes, I cannot run arbitrary software and sometimes it is a disadvantage. Yes, I don't agree with all of the App Store rules all of the time. Yes, I don't think the App Store re…

False dichotomy.

Having a curated store \neq Having only one store.

Also, that misses all the other areas pointed out: "Be it the electronic wallet, browsers or app stores, consumers using an Apple iPhone should be able to benefit from competitive services by a range of providers."

> But that policy should then also apply to PlayStation, X-box, Tesla infotainment, etc.

Why? That only applies to "gatekeepers". So you would have to argue that apple is very unsuccessful and hence these are at the same level as apple... seems like quite a stretch.